Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Bladed Assaults in American Society

  1. #1
    Doc's Avatar
    Doc
    Doc is offline
    AKI Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    8,421
    Thanks
    4,264
    Thanked 14,902 Times in 5,571 Posts

    Default Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Bladed Assaults in American Society
    By
    Ron Chapél, Ph.D.


    As a part of the study of Psychology of Confrontation, it reveals many martial arts, and martial artist focuses on blade manipulations because it is easier than developing actual empty hand self-defense skills, and it is a natural progression from those who would also concentrate on “sticks” and stick fighting. Both of these are cultural expressions of arts and styles that originate from a culture of edged weapons. The US is a gun culture, not a knife culture like other parts of the world, therefore you are more likely to be shot than stabbed or cut. Still, in the market of “selling” martial arts skills and seminars, culturally different and “new” material that was formally not of the mainstream, (for good reason), is appealing and easier than teaching blocks, proper footwork, and basic skills. After all, anyone with an edged weapon can cut you, skill not necessary and makes for intriguing material in seminars without taxing the intellect of the participants.

    That being said, according to the catalog of assaults recorded by all the police departments in the country by the FBI, statistically relative to other attacks in this country, knife assaults are almost non-existent. This mirrors my own personal experience as a Police Officer, Deputy, and US Marshal.

    The type of knife assault, however, is usually dictated by several factors. The most significant, to no one's surprise, is “environment.” That is followed by the “relationship” of the parties involved, and lastly but intertwined with the former, by “gender.”

    In a prison setting, the short rapid multiple strikes are two-fold. First, the attacks are offensive, not defensive, and are dictated by the environmental restrictions that preclude inmates having any object long enough to be used as a penetrating weapon. Therefore object converted to edged weapons are short and not capable of inflicting a lethal strike in a single blow, so the methodology is dictated by purpose and availability. Therefore, you are unlikely to face this type of bladed assault outside of a long-term incarcerated environment. This is as opposed to “jails,” which have a significant majority transient inmate population, so most assaults there are blunt force hands and feet, with the goal being to get you on the ground so you can be stomped. Grapplers with single skills don’t do well in prison.

    The relationship and gender between individuals are important because it dictates whether bladed assaults are “offensive” or “Defensive,” “premeditated” or surprise "instinctive,” as well as the type of methodology utilized. “Slashing” type blade attacks fall distinctly into the “defensive” category, particularly in a female versus male scenario. In this case, the female is usually defending herself and the “slashing” moment is instinctual, requires no skill, and precludes “physical engagement," keeping the attacker at arm's length. However, there are instances where women will stab their male antagonist when they are typically vulnerable to either distraction or asleep. Here the typical “overhead downward plunging method” is used, usually with success.

    Stranger male-to-male assaults with bladed weapons typically depend upon who the aggressor is, and whether it is a “planned” assault or “surprise.” Here, once again, the slashing method is defensive upon confrontation as a defensive mechanism, whereas the “forward underhand” or “downward plunging methods” are both “offensive” in nature.

    The most interesting thing about the attacks statistics is as previously stated, they are almost non-existent, and when they do present themselves offensively, they are usually the “overhead downward plunging,” or the “forward underhand plunging” method often see in the movies.

    However, many martial artists engage in fantasy fights where both protagonists are armed with blades and have exotic executions of dismemberment techniques of each other. However reality in American Culture would see both parties recognize the futility and quickly subscribe to M.A.D., (Mutually Assured Destruction), and simply move on without engagement, or one might be shot.

    But the most surprising statistic for many is; more people are injured by bladed attacks than long gun attacks, and as previously stated, knife attacks are virtually non-existent statistically compared to other kinds of assaults.

    So, on the street, absent hands and feet, people rarely engage in combat on an equal basis. This only occurs when one person physically attacks another by surprise, which is, in fact, your typical scenario. There is a built-in cultural escalation clause in the combat survival contract.

    You use your fist or feet, and I grab an edged weapon and “slash," or something long and heavy to keep you at bay. You grab an edged weapon and attack, and I grab something long and heavy to keep you at bay. You grab an edged weapon and attack, or something long and heavy, and I get a handgun to defend myself.

    Therefore, in conclusion, statistically, there are only essentially two (2) types of edged weapons assault to be cognizant of in a street self-defensive scenario, if you are not the aggressor and only one (1) if you are a defender. Moreover, defensive engagement is rare because it works.

    The variables will always be dictated by your environment or the local culture.

    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/cius-2016
    Last edited by Doc; 05-08-2018 at 12:34 PM.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Doc For This Useful Post:

    ElizDVM (08-03-2015),KenpoGhost (08-02-2015),KirkS (08-02-2015)

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,388
    Thanks
    820
    Thanked 1,333 Times in 839 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    If you train to defend against a knife attack, a firearm at your contact manipulation range is a piece of cake.

    Controlling attitude, environment, and dimensional stages of action take care of most of the rest of your concerns.
    A good teacher is a master of simplification and an enemy of simplism. ~ Louis A. Berman

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,328
    Thanks
    5,392
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 632 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastkenpoist View Post
    If you train to defend against a knife attack, a firearm at your contact manipulation range is a piece of cake.
    If you treat a firearm like a edged weapon your going to be in for a very rude awakening....good luck with that kind of training
    Tradition is not about the preservation of the ashes, but about keeping the flame alive

    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it".
    ~George Orwell
    Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way." Booker T. Washington


  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KirkS For This Useful Post:

    Doc (08-02-2015),toejoe2k (08-05-2015)

  6. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,388
    Thanks
    820
    Thanked 1,333 Times in 839 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkS View Post
    If you treat a firearm like a edged weapon your going to be in for a very rude awakening....good luck with that kind of training
    True it's true destructive force only comes straight out the front and you can grab it without injury.

    What was your point?
    A good teacher is a master of simplification and an enemy of simplism. ~ Louis A. Berman

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Eastcoastkenpoist For This Useful Post:

    KenpoChanger (08-02-2015)

  8. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,328
    Thanks
    5,392
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 632 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastkenpoist View Post
    True it's true destructive force only comes straight out the front and you can grab it without injury.

    What was your point?
    The dynamics of either weapon is completely different from the other

    A edged weapon is a contact weapon...a firearm in 99% of cases is not a contact weapon but a projectile weapon. If you treat a projectile weapon like a contact weapon...like i said good luck to you.

    Another thing this isn't 1965 America...people these days will shoot your ass first then rob you...with out warning
    Tradition is not about the preservation of the ashes, but about keeping the flame alive

    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it".
    ~George Orwell
    Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way." Booker T. Washington


  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KirkS For This Useful Post:

    Doc (08-03-2015),jdinca (08-03-2015)

  10. #6
    Kenpo_Paladin is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. White Belt
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 100 Times in 48 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    True it's true destructive force only comes straight out the front and you can grab it without injury.

    Unless it is a cocked revolver. Try to grab the cylinder and you will be in for a nasty surprise from the flash that escapes from the gap between the cylinder and barrel should the trigger be pulled.

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Kenpo_Paladin For This Useful Post:

    Berserker101 (08-07-2015),Doc (08-03-2015),toejoe2k (08-11-2015)

  12. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,388
    Thanks
    820
    Thanked 1,333 Times in 839 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo_Paladin View Post
    True it's true destructive force only comes straight out the front and you can grab it without injury.

    Unless it is a cocked revolver. Try to grab the cylinder and you will be in for a nasty surprise from the flash that escapes from the gap between the cylinder and barrel should the trigger be pulled.
    I will take a punch, a pinched hand, a flash burn, etc. After you are disabled, will notice and think about that.
    A good teacher is a master of simplification and an enemy of simplism. ~ Louis A. Berman

  13. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,388
    Thanks
    820
    Thanked 1,333 Times in 839 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkS View Post
    The dynamics of either weapon is completely different from the other

    A edged weapon is a contact weapon...a firearm in 99% of cases is not a contact weapon but a projectile weapon. If you treat a projectile weapon like a contact weapon...like i said good luck to you.

    Another thing this isn't 1965 America...people these days will shoot your ass first then rob you...with out warning
    Thank you, I had no idea a gun was a projectile weapon, no wonder we are having trouble communicating.

    Just kidding, I fully understand the bullet comes out of the weapon.

    Why is your point valid?

    Yes you can't deal with the gun, or knife from out of contact range, besides remaining out of contact.
    A good teacher is a master of simplification and an enemy of simplism. ~ Louis A. Berman

  14. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,328
    Thanks
    5,392
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 632 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastkenpoist View Post
    Thank you, I had no idea a gun was a projectile weapon, no wonder we are having trouble communicating.

    Just kidding, I fully understand the bullet comes out of the weapon.

    Why is your point valid?

    Yes you can't deal with the gun, or knife from out of contact range, besides remaining out of contact.
    My point is valid is because your treating both weapons as equals and their not. This is not a apples to apples comparision and unless your living in sort of martial arts fantasy land you can see that.
    Tradition is not about the preservation of the ashes, but about keeping the flame alive

    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it".
    ~George Orwell
    Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way." Booker T. Washington


  15. The Following User Says Thank You to KirkS For This Useful Post:

    Doc (08-03-2015)

  16. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,388
    Thanks
    820
    Thanked 1,333 Times in 839 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkS View Post
    My point is valid is because your treating both weapons as equals and their not. This is not a apples to apples comparision and unless your living in sort of martial arts fantasy land you can see that.
    Once you get in range, divert, control, and disarm.

    Do we want to have a discussion as to whether they are equals? I really don't know what you are saying.
    A good teacher is a master of simplification and an enemy of simplism. ~ Louis A. Berman

  17. #11
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Bellevue, WA
    Posts
    4,823
    Thanks
    8,076
    Thanked 3,925 Times in 2,211 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Just curious, have you ever faced either in the hands of somebody who meant to see that some harm came to you?
    "To be, rather than to seem"

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to MarkC For This Useful Post:

    Doc (08-03-2015)

  19. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,388
    Thanks
    820
    Thanked 1,333 Times in 839 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Who is the question to? If it is me the answer is yes.
    A good teacher is a master of simplification and an enemy of simplism. ~ Louis A. Berman

  20. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,328
    Thanks
    5,392
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 632 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastkenpoist View Post
    If you train to defend against a knife attack, a firearm at your contact manipulation range is a piece of cake.
    This is what you had said earlier in this discussion that caught my attention. That defending against a firearm would be a piece of cake...it isn't.

    Try this sometime..get a air soft or paintball gun and give to someone in your school that doesn't know or work out with you on a regular basis. Have them aim it at your chest or stomach and on command you do your technique and at the same time their goal is to shoot you.
    They can move, strike you, what ever but their goal is to put one round in your center mass or head. Wear safety glasses because i don't want you anymore blind than you already are.
    Try your stuff then, I will bet you that you get popped atleast once in center mass or in the head. It's not as easy as it looks or as easy as someone has told you it is..

    Now try the same exercise with someone using a laundry marker...make it a red one so it really stands out. Now have have your partner attack you and you try to pull off your knife techniques. The rules are the same..you do your technique and they can do what ever but their goal is to poke or slash you with the marker... i'll bet you get marked up pretty good as would most people..

    To come onto a public or semi public forum and make some stupid comment that defending against a weapon...any weapon would be a piece of cake is the height of stupidity
    Tradition is not about the preservation of the ashes, but about keeping the flame alive

    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it".
    ~George Orwell
    Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way." Booker T. Washington


  21. The Following User Says Thank You to KirkS For This Useful Post:

    Doc (08-03-2015)

  22. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,388
    Thanks
    820
    Thanked 1,333 Times in 839 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkS View Post
    This is what you had said earlier in this discussion that caught my attention. That defending against a firearm would be a piece of cake...it isn't.

    Try this sometime..get a air soft or paintball gun and give to someone in your school that doesn't know or work out with you on a regular basis. Have them aim it at your chest or stomach and on command you do your technique and at the same time their goal is to shoot you.
    They can move, strike you, what ever but their goal is to put one round in your center mass or head. Wear safety glasses because i don't want you anymore blind than you already are.
    Try your stuff then, I will bet you that you get popped atleast once in center mass or in the head. It's not as easy as it looks or as easy as someone has told you it is..

    Now try the same exercise with someone using a laundry marker...make it a red one so it really stands out. Now have have your partner attack you and you try to pull off your knife techniques. The rules are the same..you do your technique and they can do what ever but their goal is to poke or slash you with the marker... i'll bet you get marked up pretty good as would most people..

    To come onto a public or semi public forum and make some stupid comment that defending against a weapon...any weapon would be a piece of cake is the height of stupidity
    So you just said a blind person like myself couldn't defend against either weapon.

    How does this prove your statement that a gun is more difficult to defend against?

    And just for the record, I am deaf, not blind.
    A good teacher is a master of simplification and an enemy of simplism. ~ Louis A. Berman

  23. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,328
    Thanks
    5,392
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 632 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastkenpoist View Post
    So you just said a blind person like myself couldn't defend against either weapon.

    How does this prove your statement that a gun is more difficult to defend against?

    And just for the record, I am deaf, not blind.
    My statement about the safety glasses was two fold..one was safety, the other was your mental state..not some shot about a physical condition of yours.

    Didnt say it was more difficult..just different. Your the one who said:

    If you train to defend against a knife attack, a firearm at your contact manipulation range is a piece of cake.
    Tradition is not about the preservation of the ashes, but about keeping the flame alive

    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it".
    ~George Orwell
    Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way." Booker T. Washington


  24. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,388
    Thanks
    820
    Thanked 1,333 Times in 839 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkS View Post
    My statement about the safety glasses was two fold..one was safety, the other was your mental state..not some shot about a physical condition of yours.

    Didnt say it was more difficult..just different. Your the one who said:
    And that statement is still accurate.
    A good teacher is a master of simplification and an enemy of simplism. ~ Louis A. Berman

  25. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,328
    Thanks
    5,392
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 632 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastkenpoist View Post
    And that statement is still accurate.
    Only in your little kool aid drinking martial arts fantasy world is it anywhere close to accurate
    Tradition is not about the preservation of the ashes, but about keeping the flame alive

    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it".
    ~George Orwell
    Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way." Booker T. Washington


  26. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,388
    Thanks
    820
    Thanked 1,333 Times in 839 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkS View Post
    Only in your little kool aid drinking martial arts fantasy world is it anywhere close to accurate
    Is this an explanation? I don't see any argument against my statement, but you insulting the way My teacher and I train and teach shows a lot about yourself.
    A good teacher is a master of simplification and an enemy of simplism. ~ Louis A. Berman

  27. #19
    Doc's Avatar
    Doc
    Doc is offline
    AKI Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    8,421
    Thanks
    4,264
    Thanked 14,902 Times in 5,571 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Calm down guys. If you want to go into specifics, it would be a good discussion. Pick a technique or action and talk about how you would defend one over the other.

    In my opinion, they are very different and both present unique problems of self defense. Let's talk about it.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

  28. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Doc For This Useful Post:

    jdinca (08-03-2015),KirkS (08-03-2015)

  29. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,388
    Thanks
    820
    Thanked 1,333 Times in 839 Posts

    Default Re: Bladed Assaults in American Society

    Unique problems I completely agree. Stay the hell out of contact with the blade, and if you can't get behind something impenetrable, get to contact manipulation with that firearm, off line of fire of course.
    A good teacher is a master of simplification and an enemy of simplism. ~ Louis A. Berman

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-05-2014, 07:24 PM
  2. Buy American
    By Rob Broad in forum Humor
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-31-2010, 02:03 PM
  3. How Would Today's Martial Artist Stack Up in a True Warrior Society?
    By MT Post Bot in forum KenpoTalk E-Zine Articles
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-23-2008, 01:29 PM
  4. International Kenpo Karate Society (IKKS)
    By Blackrhino in forum Parkers Kenpo (EPAK) - General
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-14-2008, 06:13 PM
  5. The (Corporate) American Way
    By Celtic_Crippler in forum Humor
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-20-2008, 11:51 PM