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Thread: Limitations of Body Cameras

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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Yeah, and there are more Black Men in jail, than in college. So what? What does one have to do with the other? In fact, some people might argue that gangs are urban terrorists who kill a lot more people than police for reasons other than trying to do your their job as police do protecting the public.

    But at the end of the day, who has to react to armed gunmen? You dissenters? Who has to deal with thugs or the coming terrorists with automatic weapons, explosives, and RPG's. You know, there aren't any tall building in a small town so why does the fire department need a hook and ladder truck?

    Cops don't need helmets, or vests, or automatic weapons. Armored personnel carriers? What for? I guess that's a hard question to answer unless you ever needed to stand behind one in a shootout so you could move personnel, or rescue injured people and hostages. Yeah, when the fit hits the shan and you call the police, I think its a good idea to limit what equipment they have at their disposal to fight whomever the bad people are. Terrorists, cartel's, or just bad guys with money.

    I seem to remember 2 guys with automatic weapons and a lot of bullets holding up a bank and keeping a whole department at bay for quite along time. And they weren't trying to commit terrorist acts and kill civilians, they just wanted the money. I wonder what they could have accomplished if their mission was to inflict as many casualties on as many people as possible. Meanwhile, these 2 guys had a police department going to guns stores to commandeer more powerful long guns to cope with the threat. Yeah, cops don't need all that stuff, even though they are on the front line of our communities when bad things happen, and more to come. I think they should just carry flashlights and wear coats and ties. That way when it happens, they can run away along side you dissenters instead of trying to save your lives. Maybe we should arm the plumbers, and they can "rooter" the bad guys.
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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Yeah, and there are more Black Men in jail, than in college. So what? What does one have to do with the other? In fact, some people might argue that gangs are urban terrorists who kill a lot more people than police for reasons other than trying to do your their job as police do protecting the public.

    But at the end of the day, who has to react to armed gunmen? You dissenters? Who has to deal with thugs or the coming terrorists with automatic weapons, explosives, and RPG's. You know, there aren't any tall building in a small town so why does the fire department need a hook and ladder truck?

    Cops don't need helmets, or vests, or automatic weapons. Armored personnel carriers? What for? I guess that's a hard question to answer unless you ever needed to stand behind one in a shootout so you could move personnel, or rescue injured people and hostages. Yeah, when the fit hits the shan and you call the police, I think its a good idea to limit what equipment they have at their disposal to fight whomever the bad people are. Terrorists, cartel's, or just bad guys with money.

    I seem to remember 2 guys with automatic weapons and a lot of bullets holding up a bank and keeping a whole department at bay for quite along time. And they weren't trying to commit terrorist acts and kill civilians, they just wanted the money. I wonder what they could have accomplished if their mission was to inflict as many casualties on as many people as possible. Meanwhile, these 2 guys had a police department going to guns stores to commandeer more powerful long guns to cope with the threat. Yeah, cops don't need all that stuff, even though they are on the front line of our communities when bad things happen, and more to come. I think they should just carry flashlights and wear coats and ties. That way when it happens, they can run away along side you dissenters instead of trying to save your lives. Maybe we should arm the plumbers, and they can "rooter" the bad guys.
    The point wasn't the mixture of good versus bad, it is the fact that the good do nothing about the bad.

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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Expecting the media to tell the truth about the police or anything for that matter is strange, I mean does anyone actually believe anything the media puts out any more? It is like listening to people tell you what is in the bible when they can't even read the language of origin of whatever scripture. The level of fabrication in the media is matched only by the level of fabrication in religious institutes and politics as the clergy and politicians spread their agendas at the expense of the truth and rest assured that their is a truth, for anyone willing to do their own research. Only the most ignorant of people believe what the media says about anything.


    In any case the majority of Police in my experience (and not because the media said so) have been bullies, liars, thieves, racists and unjust in their dealings with people, they cover up each others wrong doings and they get away with all manner of misconduct because they are the Police, their own little privileged class. I have met a few awesome Police Officers but they have indeed been the few, I suspect that maybe the job changes them, maybe they started out wanting to serve and protect people but in dealing with criminals for so long, I think they eventually become what they hunt.

    The Body Cam is really necessary for the interest of justice, the cam may not pick up everything but I hope it will cut down on some of the police misconduct. That is my opinion and I don't need a lecture on "go try to do our job" if I was to do the job of the Police I would not "try" and then fail in my responsibilities to be fair, just and actually in service to the people. Peace Officers where did those guys go?
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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenposoldier01 View Post
    In any case the majority of Police in my experience (and not because the media said so) have been bullies, liars, thieves, racists and unjust in their dealings with people, they cover up each others wrong doings and they get away with all manner of misconduct because they are the Police, their own little privileged class. I have met a few awesome Police Officers but they have indeed been the few, I suspect that maybe the job changes them, maybe they started out wanting to serve and protect people but in dealing with criminals for so long, I think they eventually become what they hunt.
    Like most people I suspect your personal contact sample of police is a very small group compared to the number in this country, and it would seem to be extraordinary that you would know such a sizable number of police intimately enough to cast judgment that they are all "bullies, liars, thieves, racists and unjust in their dealings with people, [and] they cover up each others wrong doings and they get away with all manner of misconduct." Whenever I hear someone with such a biased position, that goes into such depth of character that most people would not even have enough contact to ascertain and support most of such a statement, it usually means the problem is the one making the statement. Given small samples of contact that most people ever have, and the depth of your statement, doesn't sound right, unless your intimate and in-depth association with those of your description is on a rather lengthy on-going basis that allows you to observe support for your perspective. I know a Black guy that thinks all the white people he comes in contact with are racist, no matter how they treat and interact with him. He finds a reason to make them racist because that's what he wants to see, and that's who he is for reasons of his own. Seen them all my life, and it goes for a lot of "haters."
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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    This topic reminds me of a news story that one of our local stations ran, that is usually "anti-police" in it's reporting.

    Scenario: Officer had just completed a traffic stop and was finishing up on scene, still had his dashcam on. A dark colored sedan drive's by and opens up fire on the officer and then speeds off. Officer flips a u-turn and attempts pursuit as the car turns into a residential area. 2-3 other cars were near the scene and are close by to canvas the area as well. Police see a dark colored sedan that matches the car the officer saw half parked in a driveway, with the engine running and the passenger door open. Front door of the house is open as well.

    Officers start to order the driver of the car out of the vehicle at gunpoint. Several times they keep telling the driver to exit the vehicle. Driver keeps refusing and demanding "why". Officers finally approach the vehicle and use "bad language" as they tell the driver to get out of the car and then remove her by pulling her out.

    Police take the driver in custody, and start to conduct interviews. Unfortunately, the driver was literally at the wrong place and wrong time. She drove the exact car as the shooter and happened to be taking her son somewhere and he forgot something, so half out of the drive, he jumped out and ran back into the house to grab it.

    The media ran the story during the lunch news hour, and showed the footage of the shooter's car and the car in the driveway. Not much reaction, because people saw that cars matched and the driver refusing orders. Fast forward to the 6 o'clock news, footage of the shooter's car and officer getting shot at is cut from the story. The footage ONLY showed the police using "bad language" and removing her from the vehicle. HUGE outcry of police brutatlity and misuse of power, etc. etc.

    Doc can also probably attest to the latest LAPD story, in which officers killed a man "using an illegal choking technique". Yet, when you watch the full footage of it, the size of the suspect was almost a foot taller than the officer and the backup officer only used the restraint to take down the man and then immediately changed tactics to something else. He never held the hold and the man never lost consciousness while fighting with the police. Not even getting into the fiasco of Rodney King and how much footage was cut from that tape to create a media stir

    The news WILL create, bend and manipulate footage and soundbytes for what they want to show. It doesn't matter what the facts are in a case, they won't let that get in the way.
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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Like most people I suspect your personal contact sample of police is a very small group compared to the number in this country, and it would seem to be extraordinary that you would know such a sizable number of police intimately enough to cast judgment that they are all "bullies, liars, thieves, racists and unjust in their dealings with people, [and] they cover up each others wrong doings and they get away with all manner of misconduct." Whenever I hear someone with such a biased position, that goes into such depth of character that most people would not even have enough contact to ascertain and support most of such a statement, it usually means the problem is the one making the statement. Given small samples of contact that most people ever have, and the depth of your statement, doesn't sound right, unless your intimate and in-depth association with those of your description is on a rather lengthy on-going basis that allows you to observe support for your perspective. I know a Black guy that thinks all the white people he comes in contact with are racist, no matter how they treat and interact with him. He finds a reason to make them racist because that's what he wants to see, and that's who he is for reasons of his own. Seen them all my life, and it goes for a lot of "haters."

    Yes you are correct that out of all the Police in the United States of America I have only had dealings with those in Five States of which the worst were in the city of Cleveland, Ohio and the best where in the city of Mishawaka, Indiana. (I trained them) Just so we are clear I was not casting judgement on all the Police that I interacted with as I said I have met some awesome ones. I agree with your point that the media is hardly ever fair when it comes to cops and then gave my opinion based on direct experience and believe me I wish that I had not witnessed all the messed up stuff the police did to people in my city growing up. I wish I lived in your state where the police are all saints and poop rainbows but lets be honest, you claim I have a bias opinion but the fact that you were a cop means your impartial? Just so we are CLEAR I do not know the majority of Police in America so if anyone thought I was talking about all the Police in America, I was not, I was talking only about my limited experience with Police. Further more your proving my point, you were not there to see and experience what I did but here you are to the rescue of your fellow cops without knowing any of the facts, does that not lend truth to my statement that they cover up each others wrong doings. I shared my opinion but not to offend those members of law enforcement that post on KenpoTalk... if anything people who are cops should know that not all of the people they worked with pooped rainbows but hey whatever I feel like I should not have even bothered to defend my point because you already implied that bad cops are somehow my personal problem.
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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenposoldier01 View Post
    I should not have even bothered to defend my point because you already implied that bad cops are somehow my personal problem.
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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenposoldier01 View Post
    In any case the majority of Police in my experience (and not because the media said so) have been bullies, liars, thieves, racists and unjust in their dealings with people, they cover up each others wrong doings and they get away with all manner of misconduct because they are the Police, their own little privileged class. I have met a few awesome Police Officers but they have indeed been the few, I suspect that maybe the job changes them, maybe they started out wanting to serve and protect people but in dealing with criminals for so long, I think they eventually become what they hunt.
    I know others have had much longer careers than me, but in my almost 20 years of working in this field I think your "percentages" are way out of wack. Most cops are good and honest people, there are much fewer bad apples out there than the media wants you to believe. There are WAY too many factors that play into a "good cop" vs. "bad cop" scenario. Things like an officer's age, years of experience, where he works (both agency and assignment) that will put you into widely differing demographics of what an officer is like.

    For example, when I worked "out county" in my agency and was rolling through rural areas and suburbs, it was very common for people outside to wave and be happy to see a police car coming by. I have also worked in parts of the city that we covered too. Guess what? Not ONE person waved or acted like they were happy to see a cop come by when they were out. Now stop for a second, and think what the interaction is going to be when people are happy to see me when they need help versus someone who is still hostile to me when they need help?

    Guess where the majority of my calls came from and contacts came from? Yep, the areas where people are not happy to see me. Think these types of things play into "good cop" vs. "bad cop" and perceptions?

    Reminds me of a study that was done for business' and customer satisfaction. If a customer has a good experience they may tell 1-2 other people about it, but if they have a bad experience they will tell around 10 people about it (numbers may be a little off as I'm going from memory, but the idea holds). Same thing with the police. We don't hear about the good interactions usually because those aren't news worthy.

    But, here is a local story of one of the officer's nearby where I work.
    Police officer?s act of kindness goes viral - Parents - TODAY.com
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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenposoldier01 View Post
    Yes you are correct that out of all the Police in the United States of America I have only had dealings with those in Five States of which the worst were in the city of Cleveland, Ohio and the best where in the city of Mishawaka, Indiana. (I trained them) Just so we are clear I was not casting judgement on all the Police that I interacted with as I said I have met some awesome ones. I agree with your point that the media is hardly ever fair when it comes to cops and then gave my opinion based on direct experience and believe me I wish that I had not witnessed all the messed up stuff the police did to people in my city growing up. I wish I lived in your state where the police are all saints and poop rainbows but lets be honest, you claim I have a bias opinion but the fact that you were a cop means your impartial? Just so we are CLEAR I do not know the majority of Police in America so if anyone thought I was talking about all the Police in America, I was not, I was talking only about my limited experience with Police. Further more your proving my point, you were not there to see and experience what I did but here you are to the rescue of your fellow cops without knowing any of the facts, does that not lend truth to my statement that they cover up each others wrong doings. I shared my opinion but not to offend those members of law enforcement that post on KenpoTalk... if anything people who are cops should know that not all of the people they worked with pooped rainbows but hey whatever I feel like I should not have even bothered to defend my point because you already implied that bad cops are somehow my personal problem.
    I'm not defending anyone, and I never defend a bad cop. What I said, is your characterization of all the cops you have interacted with seem to be rather intensive and beyond the scope of a civilian unless they have a consistent, on-going, history of negative incarceration with the same set of officers over an extended period of time. Otherwise the statements are just inflammatory. That is the only way you could support, "bullies, liars, thieves, racists and unjust in their dealings with people, [and] they cover up each others wrong doings and they get away with all manner of misconduct."

    It is one thing to say, you've had a bad experience with police. Some people for reasons of their own, ONLY have bad experiences with police which defies an objective perspective of public interaction.

    I grew up in South Central Los Angeles, home of the Watt's and Rodney King Riots. A Black kid in the heart of the badlands if you will. Did I get stopped by the police? Sure did, but my Mother told me something that always worked. "if you bring a bad attitude to a party, don't be shocked if you don't have a good time." Growing up, I kept my attitude respectful and complied with police questions, and they always treated me respectful and sent me on my way. I walked away when others in the group with the "attitude" were detained and "sweated.' Mr. Parker when I was 16 said the same thing to me. "Remember, attitude always breeds attitude. What you bring is what you get." The rest is just exaggeration. So who's objective, and who's blowing subjective smoke? I never said all cops are great, and never defend someone without knowing all the facts, unlike some others. As long a human beings are cops, there will be some bad apples, and they should be locked up just like anyone else. But the point you previously missed was the percentage of police/public interactions and negative behavior consequences can't be taken as gospel from the guy that went to jail.
    Last edited by Doc; 10-08-2014 at 08:52 PM.
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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Yeah, and there are more Black Men in jail, than in college. So what? What does one have to do with the other?
    Specifically it allows out of the box thinking.

    In fact, some people might argue that gangs are urban terrorists who kill a lot more people than police for reasons other than trying to do your their job as police do protecting the public.
    I'm sure gangs as well as organized crime use terror and fit most of the definition of terrorism. So, does that mean when the police kill someone it shouldn't be investigated? Not exactly sure what your point was.

    But at the end of the day, who has to react to armed gunmen? You dissenters? Who has to deal with thugs or the coming terrorists with automatic weapons, explosives, and RPG's.
    Victims, victim's families, witnesses, etc, and also the police. Police aren't the only targets of terror.

    Also, I often post alternating viewpoints for discussion, as this is a discussion board. It does not necessarily mean always agree with it. You call me a dissenter, you don't know me, and I am generally far from a dissenter.

    You know, there aren't any tall building in a small town so why does the fire department need a hook and ladder truck?
    I don't know, why?

    Cops don't need helmets, or vests, or automatic weapons. Armored personnel carriers? What for? ...snippage... I seem to remember 2 guys with automatic weapons and a lot of bullets holding up a bank and keeping a whole department at bay for quite along time. And they weren't trying to commit terrorist acts and kill civilians, they just wanted the money.
    Now you are just being melodramatic. I assume you are referring to the North Hollywood shootout in 1997? Should we buy APC's for every metropolitan city because of this event? Should we make that expense in equipment, upkeep, storage and continual training? How many more events like this have there been since 1997?
    Is there an opportunity cost? Is there something else you could spend that money on that would save even more police and civilian lives?
    Today, more police have access to more high powered rifles, would that have made a difference in 1997?

    Lastly, why not just let them go? If all they wanted was the money, was it worth the shootout? Just this week we had an example of a civilian killed, by the police officer's car, because of a high speed chase that started two cities over.

    Simply...

    I made a point earlier that the mood of the public is changing. I posted that link as kind providing alternate information, not as a guide to disarm the police. I would prefer people take a more holistic look at things when making big decisions, like alternate data and thoughts.

    My perception, is that support from socio-economic and socio-geographic groups that traditionally supported the police unconditionally has decreased. That there have been too many incidents that have taken withdrawals from the public goodwill bank. I know a lot of this is because people only post or report the bad things, and not the good things, but the perception is there.

    The way I see it, if we stay on this course, we could be in for a real mess. It won't be immediate, it may take a couple more decades, but I can see it. With less pent up goodwill, there will be less support for the police. People will be quicker to riot or engage. The police will naturally do what their procedures say and what they are trained to do, which will escalate the crowd and in turn escalate the police, until all the goodwill is gone, and no one trusts the other. That's not what I want to see happen.
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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by J-squared View Post
    Specifically it allows out of the box thinking.



    I'm sure gangs as well as organized crime use terror and fit most of the definition of terrorism. So, does that mean when the police kill someone it shouldn't be investigated? Not exactly sure what your point was.


    Victims, victim's families, witnesses, etc, and also the police. Police aren't the only targets of terror.

    Also, I often post alternating viewpoints for discussion, as this is a discussion board. It does not necessarily mean always agree with it. You call me a dissenter, you don't know me, and I am generally far from a dissenter.


    I don't know, why?



    Now you are just being melodramatic. I assume you are referring to the North Hollywood shootout in 1997? Should we buy APC's for every metropolitan city because of this event? Should we make that expense in equipment, upkeep, storage and continual training? How many more events like this have there been since 1997?
    Is there an opportunity cost? Is there something else you could spend that money on that would save even more police and civilian lives?
    Today, more police have access to more high powered rifles, would that have made a difference in 1997?

    Lastly, why not just let them go? If all they wanted was the money, was it worth the shootout? Just this week we had an example of a civilian killed, by the police officer's car, because of a high speed chase that started two cities over.

    Simply...

    I made a point earlier that the mood of the public is changing. I posted that link as kind providing alternate information, not as a guide to disarm the police. I would prefer people take a more holistic look at things when making big decisions, like alternate data and thoughts.

    My perception, is that support from socio-economic and socio-geographic groups that traditionally supported the police unconditionally has decreased. That there have been too many incidents that have taken withdrawals from the public goodwill bank. I know a lot of this is because people only post or report the bad things, and not the good things, but the perception is there.

    The way I see it, if we stay on this course, we could be in for a real mess. It won't be immediate, it may take a couple more decades, but I can see it. With less pent up goodwill, there will be less support for the police. People will be quicker to riot or engage. The police will naturally do what their procedures say and what they are trained to do, which will escalate the crowd and in turn escalate the police, until all the goodwill is gone, and no one trusts the other. That's not what I want to see happen.
    Well, I wasn't aiming anything at YOU personally, only the generic dissenters. But anyway if YOU feel that it's ok for 2 guys in full military gear and automatic weapons to walk into a bank in a city and rob it, and the police should consider letting them go because of a shootout, then I don't know what to say. I dare say few would agree with you, but you never know these days.

    I've never heard anyone extend the high speed chase argument to armed bank robbery. I guess what some don't get is, when you let things go, it doesn't diminish it escalates whatever the activity. Many years ago I got complaints for writing jaywalking tickets. The public always takes the perspective that we should be looking for "real" crime instead of "harassing" poor people just trying to get across the street. Even though it seems some are of the mindset we shouldn't do that either if their might be a shootout.

    If the bad guys realize when they commit a crime, any crime), all they have to do is get in a car and drive recklessly to get the police to back off, then crime will escalate and so will high speed chases. Criminals will drive more and more reckless in hopes police won't follow them. That is happening right now. We just chased a guy for 2 hours through 3 counties in a truck including a good portion on the freeway on the wrong side going in the wrong direction against traffic. When he finally crashed after losing control and was taken into custody. He was asked why he put so many lives in danger and drive so recklessly, (we always ask, it's protocol), He said, "I was hoping you guys would just give up." And that's why we don't.

    Sometime simple logic can be elusive when smothered by emotion. You know, like having to kill a pet. The world isn't always a nice place, but the one thing I've found is no matter where I go, people from all over the world seem to think we do a pretty good job in comparison to where they live. My student from Japan, Don Jones, just told me recently how the police in Japan can hold you for 21 days for any reason. And if they choose they can release you, and snatch you back up again as soon as your feet hit the sidewalk, AND beat the crap out of you if you are disrespectful. Life's tough, but as my old Sgt used to say, "But it ain't going nowhere. Deal with it."

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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    I'm not defending anyone, and I never defend a bad cop. What I said, is your characterization of all the cops you have interacted with seem to be rather intensive and beyond the scope of a civilian unless they have a consistent, on-going, history of negative incarceration with the same set of officers over an extended period of time. Otherwise the statements are just inflammatory. That is the only way you could support, "bullies, liars, thieves, racists and unjust in their dealings with people, [and] they cover up each others wrong doings and they get away with all manner of misconduct."

    It is one thing to say, you've had a bad experience with police. Some people for reasons of their own, ONLY have bad experiences with police which defies an objective perspective of public interaction.

    I grew up in South Central Los Angeles, home of the Watt's and Rodney King Riots. A Black kid in the heart of the badlands if you will. Did I get stopped by the police? Sure did, but my Mother told me something that always worked. "if you bring a bad attitude to a party, don't be shocked if you don't have a good time." Growing up, I kept my attitude respectful and complied with police questions, and they always treated me respectful and sent me on my way. I walked away when others in the group with the "attitude" were detained and "sweated.' Mr. Parker when I was 16 said the same thing to me. "Remember, attitude always breeds attitude. What you bring is what you get." The rest is just exaggeration. So who's objective, and who's blowing subjective smoke? I never said all cops are great, and never defend someone without knowing all the facts, unlike some others. As long a human beings are cops, there will be some bad apples, and they should be locked up just like anyone else. But the point you previously missed was the percentage of police/public interactions and negative behavior consequences can't be taken as gospel from the guy that went to jail.
    You are right I missed it, who went to jail and what does someone else going to jail have to do with my comments?
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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenposoldier01 View Post
    You are right I missed it, who went to jail and what does someone else going to jail have to do with my comments?
    of all of the things I said, I think you just proved my point. Thanks for the interaction, call it a day.
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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Jaywalking? Did somebody say jaywalking? I'm a serial jaywalker. I take extra care to be sure I jaywalk at least twice a day! If I walk the three miles to work, I can usually jaywalk about half a dozen times. Never busted so far....

    #smalltime

    Seriously though, I've known, so far in my life, about 15 cops personally. Five I grew up with and went to school with. Two of those guys were and are great guys, and as far as I know, good, well-liked cops. The other three were bullies and dicks as kids, teenagers and adults, and have had...issues as cops. The other officers I know are all guys I know through martial arts. Most of them are good guys, and I imagine good cops too. One or two I wouldn't care to have take an interest in me. Because they're dicks and I've heard them bragging about being dicks. No business being trusted with even owning a gun.

    I imagine the ranks of the police are much like the population in general. A majority of decent people trying to do a good job, and a minority of....otherwise.

    ( Captain Obvious will now leave the building)
    "To be, rather than to seem"

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    Jaywalking? Did somebody say jaywalking? I'm a serial jaywalker. I take extra care to be sure I jaywalk at least twice a day! If I walk the three miles to work, I can usually jaywalk about half a dozen times. Never busted so far....

    #smalltime

    Seriously though, I've known, so far in my life, about 15 cops personally. Five I grew up with and went to school with. Two of those guys were and are great guys, and as far as I know, good, well-liked cops. The other three were bullies and dicks as kids, teenagers and adults, and have had...issues as cops. The other officers I know are all guys I know through martial arts. Most of them are good guys, and I imagine good cops too. One or two I wouldn't care to have take an interest in me. Because they're dicks and I've heard them bragging about being dicks. No business being trusted with even owning a gun.

    I imagine the ranks of the police are much like the population in general. A majority of decent people trying to do a good job, and a minority of....otherwise.

    ( Captain Obvious will now leave the building)
    Thanks for reminding me about "jaywalking." I meant to say, when cops emphasize jaywalking enforcement, at least in the big city, it's because there have been a rash of pedestrian injuries and/or deaths in a particular area and we are sent there to do focused enforcement to save lives. The ped only sees us harassing people for "no reason." The truth is, nobody wants to do that crap. We'd rather be trying catch a good felony, but we also don't get to choose what laws we enforce and when very often. If you're sent out on one of these selective enforcement details, and you don't come back with a stack of tickets ....... your supervisors want to know what you've been doing all day.

    But as you say, cops are just people. I've worked with guys that were pure *******s, and I told them so. I've told everyone of my partners over the years, "Don't do anything that you will expect me to lie for you to keep you out of jail, cause it ain't gonna happen. Clear?" I'm proud of my guys that you know, who have adopted the philosophy of the training we do on an ongoing basis, and are good cops. When I first went through the L.A. County Sheriff's Academy in 1969, on day one the staff Lt. wrote in big letters on the blackboard; C-S-L-F-A. He asked if anyone knew what that meant. Nobody did. He said, "Chicken Sh**t Laws are for A$$holes. Don't forget it, and that includes you. There are enough bad guys to go around. Don't spend your time messing with the good folks, or you will be the A$$hole."

    I lived it, I teach it, My guys live it, and teach it. Part of the problem, especially in contract cities, is everything is gauged by "stats." They push you to make arrests of any kind to "prove" you're doing your job to justify the contracts. Me, I turned down the petty bull and issued warnings so I would free for the good stuff I could lay it on the real bad guys, not some guy who made a mistake. But then, that's just how we roll.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Over my 30 year career, I worked alongside about a dozen different law enforcement agencies. The vast majority of the time, I was happy to have them on scene. There were a couple of those agencies that made me nervous at times, but in only one instance was it a systemic problem where I questioned their values.

    When it comes to what's exploited in the media, it's important to remember the axiom, "if it bleeds, it leads".

    I rode fire engines and ambulances for a long time. Not once did I think it was worth the price to be in law enforcement. Do I have some concerns over some of the current issues? You bet. But given my personal experience, I'm still willing to give my brothers and sisters in public safety the benefit of the doubt, until proven otherwise. And except for the occasional anecdotal story, I have no reason to change that opinion. Law enforcement is a thankless job. I want them to stand down a little bit, but I certainly don't want them to give into the political correctness that had so polluted our current society. It's a tough row to hoe.
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca View Post
    Over my 30 year career, I worked alongside about a dozen different law enforcement agencies. The vast majority of the time, I was happy to have them on scene. There were a couple of those agencies that made me nervous at times, but in only one instance was it a systemic problem where I questioned their values.

    When it comes to what's exploited in the media, it's important to remember the axiom, "if it bleeds, it leads".

    I rode fire engines and ambulances for a long time. Not once did I think it was worth the price to be in law enforcement. Do I have some concerns over some of the current issues? You bet. But given my personal experience, I'm still willing to give my brothers and sisters in public safety the benefit of the doubt, until proven otherwise. And except for the occasional anecdotal story, I have no reason to change that opinion. Law enforcement is a thankless job. I want them to stand down a little bit, but I certainly don't want them to give into the political correctness that had so polluted our current society. It's a tough row to hoe.
    Look there's no reason to come down on the women of the night so hard. I mean after all its mostly - Wait! Oh, you said, "row to hoe." I'm sorry, never mind.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Look there's no reason to come down on the women of the night so hard. I mean after all its mostly - Wait! Oh, you said, "row to hoe." I'm sorry, never mind.
    Hey, everyone has bills to pay.
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Can't remember the movie but there was a line in it delivered by an older black guy.. .

    " We all hoes , baby...."

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    Default Re: Limitations of Body Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    I know others have had much longer careers than me, but in my almost 20 years of working in this field I think your "percentages" are way out of wack. Most cops are good and honest people, there are much fewer bad apples out there than the media wants you to believe. There are WAY too many factors that play into a "good cop" vs. "bad cop" scenario. Things like an officer's age, years of experience, where he works (both agency and assignment) that will put you into widely differing demographics of what an officer is like.

    For example, when I worked "out county" in my agency and was rolling through rural areas and suburbs, it was very common for people outside to wave and be happy to see a police car coming by. I have also worked in parts of the city that we covered too. Guess what? Not ONE person waved or acted like they were happy to see a cop come by when they were out. Now stop for a second, and think what the interaction is going to be when people are happy to see me when they need help versus someone who is still hostile to me when they need help?

    Guess where the majority of my calls came from and contacts came from? Yep, the areas where people are not happy to see me. Think these types of things play into "good cop" vs. "bad cop" and perceptions?

    Reminds me of a study that was done for business' and customer satisfaction. If a customer has a good experience they may tell 1-2 other people about it, but if they have a bad experience they will tell around 10 people about it (numbers may be a little off as I'm going from memory, but the idea holds). Same thing with the police. We don't hear about the good interactions usually because those aren't news worthy.

    But, here is a local story of one of the officer's nearby where I work.
    Police officer?s act of kindness goes viral - Parents - TODAY.com
    Twenty years is plenty, and you're not about to see anything different at thirty that you haven't already experienced at twenty years in. The cast of suspect characters may change, but its the same old story. The big change for me was moving from municipal, to state, to finally the feds. Priorities change, enforcement changes, along with the size of the clusterf**ks.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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