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Thread: Nice article.......

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    Question Nice article.......

    Some people feel that the extension is no more than a fantasy and I must agree with this line of thought. Think about it this way, the extension only works if the base move was effective but if the base worked then your opponent will not be on his feet for you to complete your extension. So if the base works the extension won’t happen and if you must use the extension than the base was ineffective and the ineffective base in all probability will not leave you in a position to complete the extension. In other words, the extension relies on the base but a strong base cancels the necessity of an extension.

    Found here:
    http://www.kenpocounterpoint.com/Articles.html

    I thought this article made a lot of sense. I do think that getting the idea or playing with 10-15 unreturned strikes is a bit ludacris. Having seen what Mr. Whitson does with his counterpoint and some people that have trained with him I agree with his methods. What are your thoughts?

    On the other side I think that positional recognition and grafting are sometimes taught by the extensions, but do we need them? Can positional recognition, grafting, and timing along with the ability to counter be taught by another method other then the extensions? I think counterpoint would be a good method for this. Again thoughts?
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    Default Re: Nice article.......

    Professor Whitson's Kenpo Counter Point is a great idea. I was fortunate enough to be his dummy for a weekend in June of 2003 at Paul Dawdy's school. The Counter Point is another great tool for your Kenpo tool box so to speak. His concepts fit so well into anyone's curriculum. I still do see the extensions as an important part of the learning process, they contain so many lessons, and re-iterate so many other things you have previously learned.
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    Default Re: Nice article.......

    from a different point of view.......in japanese MA you have something called "henka" which is translated as change, or some people might say "variation". if you start something and it isnt going as planned, you move onto the next thing.
    i think by practicing the extensions you would learn a different set of tools. the most important tool would be that of adaptation.
    there are no situations that are completely ideal, but the toolbox that you fill up with the principles that are learned through practice of technique can never be too full.

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    Default Re: Nice article.......

    there is a huge difference between the extensions and counterpoint. in doing the extensions (and the base techs for that matter) you are trying to check dimensions, cancel weapons while completing your defense and counter attack. depending on the stage of training, either against a compliant, resisting, or outright ornery attacker.

    counterpoint depends on the counter-fighter's ability to find defect in the technique being applied in order to dissolve and counter. this will go on in repetition, and mixing different techniques as counters with their own defects to exploit.

    so counterpoint relies on compliance and defect in order to continue, while extensions focus on moving to finish the job.

    counterpoint can be a useful tool to teach students the likely spots for defects in a technique, how to avoid them in your execution and how to sense them and exploit them when being applied against you.... downside is you may get in the habit of doing it with the defect and continue to have this exposure in that technique outside the drill.

    the extensions are a something much more than a useful tool, but a necessary part of the system as a whole. not only as 'continuations' of the base, but as an understanding of the 'even-if' conditions, environmental considerations, and mini-techniques unto themselves. all working towards perfecting your technique removing the opportunities for counter.

    pete

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    Default Re: Nice article.......

    Quote Originally Posted by pete
    not only as 'continuations' of the base, but as an understanding of the 'even-if' conditions, environmental considerations, and mini-techniques unto themselves. all working towards perfecting your technique removing the opportunities for counter.

    pete
    Could you explain you interpretation of the difference between "what-if" and "even-if"? Thanks!
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    Default Re: Nice article.......

    I think it's something like "What if he does this" compared to "even if this misses, this next move should hit".

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    Default Re: Nice article.......

    my understanding of 'even-if', as opposed to 'what-if', lies in a. your ability to execute the technique, b. the reaction of your opponent, and c. environmental considerations... plus your response to regain control.

    a. your ability to execute the technique: even if this misses, i still have his dimensions canceled and his weapons in check... i may be able to continue the technique anyway and get him with the next strike, or graft into another.

    b. the reaction of your opponent: even if he does this, i can continue, graft, formualte, etc... important point here is that you should be preventing much of this in your technique through dimensional checks, so what can he really do that isn't in (a).

    c. environmental considerations: even if your back is to the wall, or you standing in 2 feet of snow, you can still continue or graft to fit the situation.

    your response to regain control comes from your toolbox, either insert, delete, prefix, suffix, etc to the original tech, or graft/change to another tech, piece of tech, extension, or piece of extension.

    my experience with what if 's are that they are open ended, in that a. you screw up royally without utilizing your basic principles, b. the opponent can do anything, c. environmentals become fantasy scenarios, and your response to recover is ad-hoc as opposed to using postiional recognition (or deja vu kenpo) to do something you've practiced over and over.

    i'm far from the expert on this, but i hope my understanding of this helps...

    pete

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