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Thread: Basics - Stances

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    Default Basics - Stances

    These are the stances listed as 'Basics' in the studio where I study. Submitted for discussion.

    Neutral Bow
    Forward Bow
    Reverse Bow
    One Leg Stance
    Reverse Bow
    Wide Kneel
    Close Kneel
    45 Degree Cat Stance
    Front Twist
    Rear Twist
    Concave
    Rotating Twist
    Diamond Stance

    Oddly, I don't have listed the 90 Degree Cat Stance. I think this is probably an oversight.

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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    Here is some elaboration of stances that I think is relevant.

    If you have studied kenpo even just the slightest bit you know that the Neutral Bow is the only stance that we remain in longer than just a moment. Any other stance than a neutral bow is considered transitional, meaning the stance is held just for a moment while executing a manuver. For example a forward bow is never held when throwing a strike from your rear hand. You shift into the forward bow for the strike (generating torque with the pivot on the back foot and the shoulders, and back up mass with the weight shift from 50-50 to 60-40 front to back) and then you immedately pivot back to a neutral bow.

    edit
    there is an exception to the rule of transition of stances, that is during the basics katas (the ones and twos) here for demonstrative purposes forward bows and other transition stances are held momentarily to show correct form.



    The definition of a wide kneel is a neutral bow "lowred" down. A wide kneel only changes the height of a stance. The width and depth of a wide kneel is identical to that of a neutral bow.

    The definition of a close kneel is a shallow forward bow lowered down. The close kneel changes two aspects of your body position, height and depth. The only thing that is preserved is the width.
    Last edited by dubljay; 02-16-2005 at 01:08 AM.
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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    Quote Originally Posted by dubljay
    The definition of a wide kneel is a neutral bow "lowred" down. A wide kneel only changes the height of a stance. The width and depth of a wide kneel is identical to that of a neutral bow.

    The definition of a close kneel is a shallow forward bow lowered down. The close kneel changes two aspects of your body position, height and depth. The only thing that is preserved is the width.
    Cool! I've never thought of them that way. It really does make sense.

    - Ceicei
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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    It is the way they were taught to me by my instructor. Perhaps he picked it up from Huk when he spent a few years taking privates from him.
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    Also I forgot to point out another difference between a wide kneel and a close kneel.

    This relates to their "parent" stance I guess you could call them. As I stated earlier a wide kneel is related to a neutral bow. When a wide kneel is done correctly the rear knee should be pointing to a forty-five degree angle to your toe heel line. This will improve stability. Also the height of a wide kneel is defined by the "span of your hand". Meaning the distance from the ground to your rear knee should be equal to the distance from the tip of your thumb to the tip of your pinky finger when your hand is opened as wide as possible.

    The leg positioning of a close kneel is different than that of a wide kneel. In the case of a close kneel the rear leg points a line parallel to your toe heel line. This is because in a forward bow your rear foot is also pointing on this line. The goal of a close kneel is different than that of a wide kneel. A wide kneel is simply to change your height for one reason or another, so stability is remained. The case of a close kneel is different, the object here isn't necessarily to change your height (though it does) it is also to deny a target to your opponent (i.e. the groin). Think about the applications of a close kneel. Used mostly when you are "straddling the paddle (AKA leaving your self open to a kick to the groin).
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Talking The Close Kneel Stance...

    To add to dubljay's post... While you're in a close kneel stance your rear knee should be approximately two inches from the ground. (If you want to get technical and use A.U.s then the distance from the ground should be one thumb space.)

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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward
    These are the stances listed as 'Basics' in the studio where I study. Submitted for discussion.



    Neutral Bow


    Forward Bow
    Reverse Bow
    One Leg Stance
    Reverse Bow
    Wide Kneel
    Close Kneel
    45 Degree Cat Stance
    Front Twist
    Rear Twist
    Concave
    Rotating Twist
    Diamond Stance

    Oddly, I don't have listed the 90 Degree Cat Stance. I think this is probably an oversight.
    Looks like you accidentally listed the reverse bow twice.

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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    I knew I was in danger of that Billy Lear. On our belt journals, each level has a list of Basics that are associated with that level of training. Several of the Basics are listed on multiple belt journals. I was doing the editing in my brain when entering them here. Oops!


    or


    You don't know about the OTHER Reverse Bow?

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    Default Re: The Close Kneel Stance...

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Lear
    To add to dubljay's post... While you're in a close kneel stance your rear knee should be approximately two inches from the ground. (If you want to get technical and use A.U.s then the distance from the ground should be one thumb space.)
    Thanks, that's a great reminder. I always try to remind people to lower that stance, but as I do this, even I want to cheat it sometimes...maybe a little laziness, but also in some situations it just seems awkward to recover from such a lowered position. For example, in a move like Desperate Falcons, where you then have to come out of that stance and move in on your opponent with a right forearm to their head. I'm not sure why, but I find it awkward. I try to think of it as a transitionary stance, but when I drop that low the step in is not that smooth. Any suggestions on smoothing that out?

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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    hi mj! looks like we've found another place to play~

    with desparate falcon, i always felt the 'cheating' starts by not fully engaging all those great locks prior to the close kneel... you know locking up from the fingers through the wrist, the elbow and up the shoulder... at that point actually controlling the spine and getting the attacker up on his tippy toes before coming forward with the backfist and reverse punch. by 'completing' the first maneuver your weight should be lowered and your center should be balanced, allowing you to propel yourself forward for the next sequence.

    also targeting... if your target for the reverse punch is the solar plex, then you really don't have to drop into the low stance and a forward bow would do... but, what if the target was the groin? you'd have to get lower and the reaction of his head coming down would meet your right forearm coming up and around....

    just a coupla things to play with...

    pete.

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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    Quote Originally Posted by pete
    hi mj! looks like we've found another place to play~
    Hey pete...lOl yes I like it here! I love this basics area, except it's just more to stop me from doing what I don't feel like doing but should be doing ha ha ha...

    with desparate falcon, i always felt the 'cheating' starts by not fully engaging all those great locks prior to the close kneel... you know locking up from the fingers through the wrist, the elbow and up the shoulder... at that point actually controlling the spine and getting the attacker up on his tippy toes before coming forward with the backfist and reverse punch. by 'completing' the first maneuver your weight should be lowered and your center should be balanced, allowing you to propel yourself forward for the next sequence.
    I LOL have no body at the moment to test this on, but I think I see your point... I must still be lowering into the close kneel as a separate move, even when I can see the transition should begin with the first drop.

    also targeting... if your target for the reverse punch is the solar plex, then you really don't have to drop into the low stance and a forward bow would do... but, what if the target was the groin? you'd have to get lower and the reaction of his head coming down would meet your right forearm coming up and around....
    I was actually thinking about the targeting before. I was thinking that might be part of why I naturally don't drop quite so low because it would also lower my targets for those strikes, or leave me reaching for them, or as you say changing them...good thoughts!


    MJ

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    Default Re: The Close Kneel Stance...

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Lear
    To add to dubljay's post... While you're in a close kneel stance your rear knee should be approximately two inches from the ground. (If you want to get technical and use A.U.s then the distance from the ground should be one thumb space.)
    okay, this is laughable...I'm a young college student, yadda, yadda...but this stance hurts my knees like there's no tomorrow especially a transition from close to wide. if I try to go lower, I start getting this nice searing pain latterally across my miniscus...is that even remotely near normal?
    See, all I've gotta do is get loose like I'm fluid, dude, Rollin' up my sleeves on my gi and get into it. You and who, him and them? Line up in a single file. One on one, all for one...end up in a bigger pile. The ambiance of Martial Arts is constant, Nunchucks chuckin' when I step in the mosh pit. Wing Chun dummy getting splintered apart, Escrima sticks whippin' and I'm chipping the bark. What are you? A pink belt? I'll give you a head start. Kumite killin', with the spirit of Ed Parker.

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    Default Re: The Close Kneel Stance...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronuss
    okay, this is laughable...I'm a young college student, yadda, yadda...but this stance hurts my knees like there's no tomorrow especially a transition from close to wide. if I try to go lower, I start getting this nice searing pain latterally across my miniscus...is that even remotely near normal?

    Tell ya what... from one college student to another: If you experience "rice crispies" as bad as I do then we can talk. Some times I sound like popcorn in the microwave.
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    I get that in my ankles every now and then...but the wide kneel stance just.......hurts.
    See, all I've gotta do is get loose like I'm fluid, dude, Rollin' up my sleeves on my gi and get into it. You and who, him and them? Line up in a single file. One on one, all for one...end up in a bigger pile. The ambiance of Martial Arts is constant, Nunchucks chuckin' when I step in the mosh pit. Wing Chun dummy getting splintered apart, Escrima sticks whippin' and I'm chipping the bark. What are you? A pink belt? I'll give you a head start. Kumite killin', with the spirit of Ed Parker.

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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    Wide kneels really do hurt. As my instructor always tells me when I do short 2 "The wide kneel is not supposed to be comfortable, so if you are comfortable you aren't doing it right"
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: The Close Kneel Stance...

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Lear
    To add to dubljay's post... While you're in a close kneel stance your rear knee should be approximately two inches from the ground. (If you want to get technical and use A.U.s then the distance from the ground should be one thumb space.)

    I always thought an 'A.U.' was an 'Astronomical Unit': A measurement of the mean distance between the Earth and The Sun. I'm trying to picture my knee being one Astronomical Unit from the ground.

    So ... what the heck do you mean by 'A.U.s'?

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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    Quote Originally Posted by dubljay
    Wide kneels really do hurt. As my instructor always tells me when I do short 2 "The wide kneel is not supposed to be comfortable, so if you are comfortable you aren't doing it right"
    thanfully there it's just transitional you don't have to stay in that stance for an extended period of time...otherwise, I'd cry...a lot.
    See, all I've gotta do is get loose like I'm fluid, dude, Rollin' up my sleeves on my gi and get into it. You and who, him and them? Line up in a single file. One on one, all for one...end up in a bigger pile. The ambiance of Martial Arts is constant, Nunchucks chuckin' when I step in the mosh pit. Wing Chun dummy getting splintered apart, Escrima sticks whippin' and I'm chipping the bark. What are you? A pink belt? I'll give you a head start. Kumite killin', with the spirit of Ed Parker.

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    Default Re: The Close Kneel Stance...

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward
    I always thought an 'A.U.' was an 'Astronomical Unit': A measurement of the mean distance between the Earth and The Sun. I'm trying to picture my knee being one Astronomical Unit from the ground.

    So ... what the heck do you mean by 'A.U.s'?
    Replace astronomical with anatomical (i.e. hand span or fingers)
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    I popped my kneecap twice over the course of 10-15 years. Now I notice that my knees seem to shake a lot more than they used too when I try to get in a solid stance regardless of what it is. If I'm not transitioning immediately I'm starting to get up in my stance.

    Is there any good exercises to restrengthen the knees? I do leg lifts, jump squats, swim, run, etc but my knees aren't getting any stronger.

    Or is it just a sign of age creeping up on me now.

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    Default Re: Basics - Stances

    I am not sure how good jump squats would be for your knees, those strike me as rather high impact
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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