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Thread: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

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    Default "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh...that's pure karate"

    - SGM Parker


    How many folks out there spar in class without pads or protective gear?

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh...that's pure karate"

    - SGM Parker


    How many folks out there spar in class without pads or protective gear?
    When I first started pads were frowned upon; so it was fat lips and black eyes all the way. LOL Now our students are encouraged to wear them but I often spar the same as I always have, but I am expected to have the utmost control. And I do for the most part LOL.
    sean

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    How many folks out there spar in class without pads or protective gear?
    "Technically" we only go no pads when 1/4 speed sparring. That's a drill we use that I picked up from the BKF. An excellent tool to help folks develop timing and body positioning.

    Having said that... the challenge in 1/4 speed sparring is in fact keeping it 1/4 speed. Often times it ramps up and is near 3/4-full speed, especially when folks know each other and have trained together regularly. So in answer to your question... a qualified "yes".

    The fun part of this is remembering that 1/4 speed for a couple of trained Black Belts is a lot faster than for a couple of Orange Belts.

    "Protective" gear is always worn, 'specially the nether regions. We practice progressively harder contact when doing techniques and what not. So ya gotta take care of what's important to ya.

    Respects,
    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Institute
    www.trianglekenpo.com

    "I know Kenpo!" "Cool... do you know how to use it?"

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Ah yes, Mr. Parsons.... I am a bonafied member of the Loyal Order of the Purple Triangle. LOL

    ...and I haven't forgotten about the lump you gave me in Vegas either. ...sparring with no pads. LOL
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Ah yes, Mr. Parsons.... I am a bonafied member of the Loyal Order of the Purple Triangle. LOL

    ...and I haven't forgotten about the lump you gave me in Vegas either. ...sparring with no pads. LOL
    What??? I didn't feel a thing!



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    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Institute
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    "I know Kenpo!" "Cool... do you know how to use it?"

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    [quote=Carol Kaur;66580
    How many folks out there spar in class without pads or protective gear?[/quote]

    All waza drills/sets are done on live humans with control.

    All brick work, mak jong is done bare knuckle, bare hand.

    All bag work is done bare knuckle, bare hand, shoes on feet.

    All sparring is done with gloves, kicks, mouthpiece, and cup.

    Brown belts have the priviledge to spar other brown belts and above with no pads.

    Damage does occur but is considered worth it by those that participate.

    I feel it is necessary for the fanatic to get that type of feedback, on both sides of the coin.

    DOC

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    I can't imagine not wearing protective gear when I spar... I wear the kicks, punches, headgear, cup and mouthguard, and I'm currently debating whether I should invest in some shin guards. There's just a good reason for wearing pads at every level of sparring experience.

    Beginning students - because while you try to go easy on them, they will stick you in the worst spot when you least expect it, HARD. (I went through this just last night, our new yellow belts put on the pads for the first time and we ran drills... I've never been kicked in the groin and legs so many times in my life)

    Intermediate students - because now that they have SOME skills and SOME control, they are feeling themselves and tend to push harder and faster, which then opens up possibilities for injury.

    Advanced students and black belts - because they are expected to be able to fight at an advanced level, so YOU WILL GET HIT due to their superior techniques and skill, and it won't feel good.

    And you have to wear them at all levels, because your significant other looks at you crazy when you come home with bumps and bruises.
    "Your kung fu's no good..."
    *Warrior, Scholar*

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by domino3700 View Post
    And you have to wear them at all levels, because your significant other looks at you crazy when you come home with bumps and bruises.
    Actually, back there 35 years ago, I made it a part of our "being together" that she take martial arts.

    If I don't come home with those bumps and bruises, she wants nothing to do with me because I must be a coward.

    DOC

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Depends on your level of control. I've always been "nice" sparring with

    no pads-broken toes, almost bit my tongue off, spraind fingers. It's

    retarded. I'm not training to be a UFC fighter who'll last three years.

    I'm training for the fight of my life and hoping it never happens.
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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    When I first started pads were frowned upon; so it was fat lips and black eyes all the way. LOL Now our students are encouraged to wear them but I often spar the same as I always have, but I am expected to have the utmost control. And I do for the most part LOL.
    sean
    I remember those days!!!!
    ....I can tell you when the weather is changing too!!! I'm GLAD we've got better sense now!

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael151 View Post
    Depends on your level of control. I've always been "nice" sparring with

    no pads-broken toes, almost bit my tongue off, spraind fingers. It's

    retarded. I'm not training to be a UFC fighter who'll last three years.

    I'm training for the fight of my life and hoping it never happens.
    Sometimes the way you word things Mikael.....
    is SO VERY SPOT ON!!!

    Thanks

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Back in the late 70's, early 80's when I trained in Goju Ryu we only wore those old white hand pads. Head gear and foot gear, never knew they existed back then, LOL

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by domino3700 View Post
    I can't imagine not wearing protective gear when I spar... I wear the kicks, punches, headgear, cup and mouthguard, and I'm currently debating whether I should invest in some shin guards. There's just a good reason for wearing pads at every level of sparring experience.

    Beginning students - because while you try to go easy on them, they will stick you in the worst spot when you least expect it, HARD. (I went through this just last night, our new yellow belts put on the pads for the first time and we ran drills... I've never been kicked in the groin and legs so many times in my life)

    Intermediate students - because now that they have SOME skills and SOME control, they are feeling themselves and tend to push harder and faster, which then opens up possibilities for injury.

    Advanced students and black belts - because they are expected to be able to fight at an advanced level, so YOU WILL GET HIT due to their superior techniques and skill, and it won't feel good.

    And you have to wear them at all levels, because your significant other looks at you crazy when you come home with bumps and bruises.
    Its going to be a real shock when your students get in altercations without the protective gear handy.
    Sean

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    Cool Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    As most folk today, are not Warriors by profession and hold real jobs...the allure of bare-knuckle brawling has diminished. Wearing pads, so as not to show-up at one's 9-5 wearin' a purplish-yellowish-green-ish shiner and a festive gap where one's front teeth once were, is simply not very acceptable in today's modern society.*

    The traditionalist debate over the loss of control, due to wearing pads vs pulling punches died a death of natural causes at the hands of Jhoon Rhee. It is decidedly difficult to do Data Entry with busted knuckles or look the part of a respectable member of society covered in contusions. Would you entrust your child to a Public School teacher with banged-up knuckles or missing teeth? How about your doctor? Your lawyer? Safety gear allows us to explore the domain of combat, without having to display the grotesque trophies in our day-to-day lives.

    Long Live Safe-T Punch and Safe-T Kick!!!
    Viva la Groin Cup!
    All hail the mouth piece!





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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    I remember those days!!!!
    ....I can tell you when the weather is changing too!!! I'm GLAD we've got better sense now!

    Your Brother
    John

    I know....I'm a human barometer.

    I often joke that if I ever wake up to not one single ache or pain, it will mean that I am dead.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post

    Long Live Safe-T Punch and Safe-T Kick!!!
    Viva la Groin Cup!
    All hail the mouth piece!


    I can agree with that.

    I tend to spar both ways. Depends on the partner, their skill vs mine, my modd, what I had for breakfast, etc.... I always felt that I should spar in all the different levels of protection. Yes...I idiotically sparred without a cup on several occasions. I figured that I would have it in a real world situation so I should try it that way. Can we say "learning" experience.
    "Change is not necessary...Survival is not mandatory" - W. Edward Deming

    "When I hit....I hit the whole enchilada" - Master David Leung

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    As most folk today, are not Warriors by profession and hold real jobs...the allure of bare-knuckle brawling has diminished. Wearing pads, so as not to show-up at one's 9-5 wearin' a purplish-yellowish-green-ish shiner and a festive gap where one's front teeth once were, is simply not very acceptable in today's modern society.*

    The traditionalist debate over the loss of control, due to wearing pads vs pulling punches died a death of natural causes at the hands of Jhoon Rhee. It is decidedly difficult to do Data Entry with busted knuckles or look the part of a respectable member of society covered in contusions. Would you entrust your child to a Public School teacher with banged-up knuckles or missing teeth? How about your doctor? Your lawyer? Safety gear allows us to explore the domain of combat, without having to display the grotesque trophies in our day-to-day lives.

    Long Live Safe-T Punch and Safe-T Kick!!!
    Viva la Groin Cup!
    All hail the mouth piece!




    *Professional Bouncers and Bounty Hunters not-withstanding
    If my daughters teachers or doctors were martial artists I would accept the markings.
    sean

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    Its going to be a real shock when your students get in altercations without the protective gear handy.
    Sean
    Oh I agree that students should experience some of what real combat is like. That's exactly why I feel so strongly about wearing pads, because of all the bumps and bruises we take even when we do pad up.

    I have to agree with SifuDangeRuss, that pads allow you to go further with your sparring while minimizing (not eliminating) the carnage that goes with it. Even with full pads on during sparring, in the last three weeks, I've suffered a swollen black eye (which got funny looks from my boss and coworkers), a tweaked right ankle, bruising to my left calf and shin, a jammed finger, and multiple stinging punches and kicks to the body and face. And I haven't even mentioned what my fellow classmates have suffered (knee pops, kidney shots, bloody noses, etc.). Pain and shock is definitely something we all are familiar with.

    Mind you, we only wear the pads during sparring. So during tech lines, for example, we also experience the stings and the pains that come with bare contact. Just like any good kenpo school, occasionally it's accidental, but mostly it's intended so that we "get the feel". So I'm all for students getting the feel of what a real altercation will be like, but that's also why I can't imagine sparring without pads... besides, I'm sure we'd have less students without them.
    "Your kung fu's no good..."
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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    Actually, back there 35 years ago, I made it a part of our "being together" that she take martial arts.

    If I don't come home with those bumps and bruises, she wants nothing to do with me because I must be a coward.

    DOC
    You must have a wonderful woman, Doc... mine freaks out every time I stand up a little too slow... "are you hurt AGAIN??"
    "Your kung fu's no good..."
    *Warrior, Scholar*

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    Default Re: "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh..."

    Quote Originally Posted by domino3700 View Post
    You must have a wonderful woman, Doc... mine freaks out every time I stand up a little too slow... "are you hurt AGAIN??"
    Depends on the definition of "wonderful"...

    ...but I will admit to "very interesting".

    Thank you.

    DOC

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