Pick a technique to eliminate from the system

[Rich_Hale]

I continually see the same theme in assessing the value of a technique. "Would I use it on the street?" Or is it street practical?"

Doesn't anyone give credence to Mr. Parker's statement:

"I teach Kenpo, not for the sake of teaching the techniques, but for the principles involved in them." (Karate Kung-Fu Oct. 1986)

Another point is that although I'm not crazy about the ideal phase of several techniques we should consider where the technique leads us in the end, not where it has us start in the beginning.

Now, as for the likelihood of anyone needing to defend against an aggressive handshake. I agree that it is unlikely that we ever will, but then again what is the likelihood that we will ever defend against a right hand hair grab, flank shoulder grab, front wrist lock, left rear cross over right heel kick, right and left shoulder grab by two men, or a right front snap kick followed by a left spinning back kick?

For that matter what is the likelihood we will ever have to defend against a club, knife or gun attack?

What is the likelihood we will ever have to defend ourselves at all?

So what do we do, get rid of every technique that we are unlikely to be attacked by? Or is it the age old problem of wanting to get rid of techniques that we find difficult to accomplish?

Ed Parker Jr. stated it best when he said the first techniques he hears complaints about are the "grappling" techniques where we have to actually control our opponent.

Yes they're difficult to make work as our opponent doesn't always react in the way we want, or expect, them to. But "Contact Manipulation" is indeed part of our curriculum.

Not to slam my Tae Kwon Do buddies, as I have a black in Tae Kwon Do myself, but if you want to avoid Contact Manipulation I highly recommend Tae Kwon Do, or a similar art. Our techniques consisted of our partner executing an attack then standing there (unmoving) while we hit and kicked them a few times.

I suggest we take a poll and allow each forum member to delete one technique from the "Ed Parker" system of 154 techniques and see what we have left in a couple of months.

I hope I don't sound too harsh as that is not my intention, so I'll start off with the first elimination . . . I say we get rid of Form 5 as my knees aren't what they used to be.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot we were eliminating techniques (this week) not forms . . . I'll wait my turn.

[jaybacca72]

i choose to eliminate CIRCLING WINDMILLS,not that i can't apply it i am just beating everybody to the punch hahahaha!
later
Jason Arnold
CANADA

[Rich_Hale]

Okay, I'll go with Gift in Return for the same reason.

[Mikael151]

Great topic! I can't wait to see what people say.
As for myself, I'd get rid of Delayed Sword. It's impossible for me to get directional harmony out of that tech without modifying it. I also don't like the fact that it teaches a beginner to give up their base when they really haven't learned to establish one yet.

[Rob Broad]

I would get rid Fallen Cross

[Celtic_Crippler]

Great post and I agree with the statement:

"I teach Kenpo, not for the sake of teaching the techniques, but for the principles involved in them." (Karate Kung-Fu Oct. 1986)

Before answering, has anybody thought about the other side of the coin?

What I mean is, I too at one time focused and believed in the hundreds of techniques in the system I learned. The logic being to be prepared for any possible attack regardless of how probable it was.

Upon consideration though, I first noticed redundancies in some of the techniques, especially the extensions. Some argue that they simply reinforce the principles taught in the base technique. But from my point of view, why not stress them the first time and work that base technique more with more focus on the principles behind it? "I'd rather have one technique that works for me than 100 that work against me." -SGM Ed Parker.

I also began to consider why not push the principle further by encouraging students to incorporate principles like grafting, borrowing, and the equation formula? Then they could create their own extensions that would feel more natural to them and thereby be more effective (for them.)

Surprisingly, my logic behind this was the same as I had been cited for years when learning all the techniques and their extensions. You can not possibly predict how a person(s) will attack you. Sure, there are only so many "types" of attacks, but the combinations and variables involved in the attack are infinite! So, be prepared, right?

So, what do you do? Keep adding techniques every time you discover another combo or variable? I personally do not think this is feasible or practical. I do feel that if one learns enough base techniques, and I mean really "master" them, and truely focus and practice on spontaneity incorporating principles like grafting, borrowing, and the equation formula then one would be better prepared to deal with the unpredictable variables of a confrontation.

[Dr. Dave in da house]

Kenpo prepares us for spontaneity. Something I heard after a fight one night that had a lull in it was, "After tumbling around then landing against the wall, he was positioned so that I couldn't see anywhere to hit him." The "bad guy" has his back to the guy. IMO,a phrase we should never hear from a kenpoist; the techniques teach us how to capitalize on position with weapon/target availability, or how to use body dynamics to CREATE opportunity if and immediate one does not exist.

So, in order to diminish our positional recognition of low target availability in exchange for ridding myself of a technique I don't like to train, I say Buckling Branch. Bowing to Buddha is kinda wierd looking. And Wings of Silk looks like it belongs as a dance step in La Cage Aux Folles, and certainly does NOT represent what I would do in response to that sort of attack...just cuz, even if not using it means you're gonna die, you at least have to look cool going out.

D.

[Seabrook]

I would get rid Fallen Cross

What????????

That is one of my favourite techniques, and the extension rocks the boat as well.

[Seabrook]

i choose to eliminate CIRCLING WINDMILLS,not that i can't apply it i am just beating everybody to the punch hahahaha!
later
Jason Arnold
CANADA

I asked Larry Tatum about this technique, and he told me that he absolutely loved the move, and it is in how it is taught. I love this technique, especially after he reviewed it with me. Here is a slightly modified version of the technique from how he reviewed it with me:

http://www.ltatum.com/movies/Week40/...eekMedW40.html

[Seabrook]

Okay, I'll go with Gift in Return for the same reason.

Gift in Return is rather precarious, LOL.

[amylong]

I could do with Twirling Sacrifice.

I like the idea of taking out their legs if I'm bent that far over. That part is great and do-able.

I don't like the spinning into a wall -- and I don't even want to TALK about the extension. AS IF.

I think I would rather swoop the legs, then fall backwards and hit the guy with an elbow or something.

--Amy

[Shodan]

You beat me to it my friend!! I, too, was gonna say Twirling Sacrifice! Well, okay then........I'll say Gift in Return- I like some of the other Gift moves MUCH better than passing his/her hand thru his/her legs and trying to grab it on the other side!!

[John Brewer]

Well I don't even know the whole system so for what it's worth, Begging Hands.

[Rob Broad]

What????????

That is one of my favourite techniques, and the extension rocks the boat as well.

It is one of those techniques that has me a;most popping out my shoulder each time I do it so, os it is one that iwould eliminate

[Hunter]

Okay, I'll go with Gift in Return for the same reason.

HAHAHA I would second that....

How about marriage of the rams...always seemed a bit "fantasy based" to me.

[MARSHALLS KENPO]

Gift in Return is rather precarious, LOL.

I do Gift in return from a sitting posistion in a chair.

Also Just because I dont like a tech,doesnt mean that someone I teach loves it.

[flying crane]

It is one of those techniques that has me a;most popping out my shoulder each time I do it so, os it is one that iwould eliminate

That seems like a good reason to me!

[amylong]

Well I don't even know the whole system so for what it's worth, Begging Hands.

I love this one! What don't you like?

[bujuts]

Two Man Set. And actually, it never was in our cirriculum system to begin with.

[John Brewer]

I love this one! What don't you like?

It just doesn't seem very realistic to me. When was the last time someone grabbed your wrists like that?