Help on Long 4

[AMusselwhite]

Hey guys. I've gone through and learned Form 4 on the Larry Tatum video, and I went and had it reviewed by Trevor Haines. They had different approaches to the end of Protecting Fans (right over left or vice versa, actual techniques used, etc.) and was just wondering what y'all had to say on the matter. Thanks.

[Rich_Hale]

Hey guys. I've gone through and learned Form 4 on the Larry Tatum video, and I went and had it reviewed by Trevor Haines . . . Thanks.

I have thought about this post for several days, wondering how to respond without sounding rude or uncaring.

But it's kind of like someone asking for advice because every time they hit themselves in the head with a hammer they get this crashing pain in their head.

I can only suggest that if you learned Form 4 from Larry, you shoud perform it for Larry. If you performed it for Trevor, you should have learned it from Trevor.

[Dr. Dave in da house]

Well, I guess that explains my headaches.

Thanks!

D.

[AMusselwhite]

I don't find it uncaring or rude at all. It was a good answer to a poorly worded question. What I meant to put was something along the lines of "How do you guys do it?", but somewhere between deciding what I wanted to ask and asking it, it got changed around. Thanks for the response.

[Mikael151]

Just do it how you do it. If it violates principle-fix it. Having totally come across as a smart ass-I'd suggest you follow Mr. Hale's advice.

[michaeledward]

Like Mr. Hale, when I read this question the first time, I wanted to help out, but couldn't quite figure out how. I have just re-read the original question and the supplemental question, and I'm still not sure I can help.

I understand the "How do you guys do it?" part, but I don't get the "end of Protecting Fans (right over left or vice versa, actual techniques used".

Protecting Fans is the first self-defense technique in the form. The whole rest of the form is at the end of this technique. Immediately following the first side of Protecting Fans is an isolation that uses the arms in 'standard opposition'. If you are using your arms in standard opposition, there is no 'right over left'. There is a portion of this isolation that you may be asking about. This is a very brief breakdown of the isolation.

Right rear elbow - with - left over the right should poke (borrowed reach)
Left rear vertical handsword - with - right thrusting four finger poke
Right rear hammerfist - with - left upward elbow
Armbreak - right arm pulling in - with - left arm pushing out
Right and left upward outward punches ...


Continue the circle to right and left inward punches (This may be what you are asking about, and it is Left over Right) ... punch to your own hips, pull your hips back out of the way of your punches at the very last moment (stick your butt out). ...

Continue the circles (clockwise with the right hand / counterclockwise with the left hand) to outward heel palm/claw strikes as you close to an attention stance (right to left). The hands in this last move are right out of the finger set.

These hand moves are an "isolation". These moves are not, strictly speaking, self-defense techniques. You've seen isolations elsewhere in the American Kenpo forms. Mr. Wedlake's book tells us they contain additional information, not found elsewhere in the forms.