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Thread: Free Flow...

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    Juggernaut is offline
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    Default Free Flow...

    Since I have begun on my kenpo path of my martial arts journey I have learned about many things including about my past experience through my exposure and practice to kenpo.

    Lately I have been focusing on the use of the Universal pattern. I printed an enlarged pic of the pattern itself and hung it on my wall. Through my past experience in the arts and my understanding of the dynamics of motion and structural alignment (thus far) I have been able to understand, apply, and seamlessly connect many paths of motion. I really enjoy it too... And with each passing week that I learn more of kenpo...there is that much more that is or has the potential to be unlocked based on ones perception, experience, and so on.

    Doing all of the above has inspired a question for all of you much more knowledgable kenpoists.

    Considering the primary aim of the self-defence techniques are to teach dynamic principles and structural alignment, manipulation, power, penetration, etc. Aside from your regular kenpo practice on basics, forms, self-defence, and sets how often do you practice free flowing your movement? I don't mean prefixing or suffixing your self-defense techniques but spontaneously free flowing with various paths of motion with all of your "tools" at your disposal.

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    Sentinel is offline
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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    Here and there, mostly. Not as much as I'd like to be. It's not the frequency, but the duration that I think about getting more of. I think it's good for the brain, akin partly to shadowboxing and partly to "noodling" on a musical instrument.

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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut View Post
    Since I have begun on my kenpo path of my martial arts journey I have learned about many things including about my past experience through my exposure and practice to kenpo.

    Lately I have been focusing on the use of the Universal pattern. I printed an enlarged pic of the pattern itself and hung it on my wall. Through my past experience in the arts and my understanding of the dynamics of motion and structural alignment (thus far) I have been able to understand, apply, and seamlessly connect many paths of motion. I really enjoy it too... And with each passing week that I learn more of kenpo...there is that much more that is or has the potential to be unlocked based on ones perception, experience, and so on.

    Doing all of the above has inspired a question for all of you much more knowledgable kenpoists.

    Considering the primary aim of the self-defence techniques are to teach dynamic principles and structural alignment, manipulation, power, penetration, etc. Aside from your regular kenpo practice on basics, forms, self-defence, and sets how often do you practice free flowing your movement? I don't mean prefixing or suffixing your self-defense techniques but spontaneously free flowing with various paths of motion with all of your "tools" at your disposal.
    All the time.
    sean

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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    All the time brother. I'm not sure what rank you are in kenpo
    but anyways once you get to short 3. Free form /grafting and spontinulity really comes together.

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    bujuts is offline
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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    Same here, all the time.

    What makes it easy for us is a common platform from which all of our techniques move to, through, and from. We begin the process of learning sponteneity by working the Sets as a framework for the system, not the Techniques. The Techniques come from the Sets, not the other way around (the way we do them anyway). Moving from one technique one one chart to another technique on another chart, even on the fly, doesn't allow us to fully develop sponteneity. Sponteneity means going from one basic to another basic to accomplish what we want to accomplish. In other words, the conscious mind stays three to four moves ahead of the body.

    From the common platform of operation we use, one can go from one Set motion to another, and any portion of a Technique can be put in there as necessary, based on what's required for the situation. Sticky Hands is something we work extensively as a means of transitioning from one motion to another. Finally, in addition to absolutely correct basics, the capacity to innovate should in my opinion be a white belt paradigm, not just for higher ranks.
    Cheers,

    Steven Brown
    UKF

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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    so....
    are you asking about shaddow boxing with Kenpo??
    Sure. All the freakin time!!!
    DRIVES my wife BONKERS.

    "Must you ALWAYS smack things as you pass by them, John?"

    "No, baby. I can smack them well before I pass them or after. Kenpo has options."


    ""SMACK""

    ((That'd be the sound of her smiting me))

    Your Brother (lover of SHE who MUST be OBEYED; with the bruises to prove it)
    John
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    "Striving for success without hard work is like trying to harvest where you haven't planted"
    ~ David Bly

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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    Free form is the ultimate expression of what we are trying to achieve. We all start learning techniques in the base or ideal situation, then you enter the dreaded what if phase(which is often entered too often and used to often as an excuse for not really learning the material), finally you enter the spontaneous phase where you just do kenpo, no techniques just dealing with your adversary and whatever the situation entails.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    bujuts is offline
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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    To dig a little deeper into this question, and to perhaps illuminate some of the fundamental components of what you (the forum) consider "free flow", lets look at it from a teacher's perspective. Take a yellow or orange belt, someone who has a solid understanding of some of the core basics (neutral bow, a few stance transitions, bracing angles, several strikes, and blocks). How would you go about systematically teaching them to integrate the motions they have thus far?

    Your thoughts are welcome.

    Cheers,

    Steven Brown
    UKF

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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    Spontaneity drills
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    Your Brother (lover of SHE who MUST be OBEYED; with the bruises to prove it)
    John
    A little Rumpole lingo, there, eh John ...

    Free flowing- rolling, drills, or just improvisationally moving for a few minutes. Get a couple of training knives and just do Kenpo moves with them. Gives a whole new level of understanding to the motions.

    Dan ("Time shall unfold what plaited cunning hides; Who cover faults, at last shame them derides.") C
    There are things that are worth knowing for their own sake, worth finding for the pure joy of discovery.

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    Juggernaut is offline
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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    Get a couple of training knives and just do Kenpo moves with them. Gives a whole new level of understanding to the motions.
    That is exactly what I have been doing, My favorite weapon has always been the knife which is what drew me to FMA years ago.

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    Default

    Each class I teach we end with the hub-bud drills, the counter point drills, and chi sao.

    I love these drills. The students I have equally enjoy them as well.

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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    Quote Originally Posted by bujuts View Post
    To dig a little deeper into this question, and to perhaps illuminate some of the fundamental components of what you (the forum) consider "free flow", lets look at it from a teacher's perspective. Take a yellow or orange belt, someone who has a solid understanding of some of the core basics (neutral bow, a few stance transitions, bracing angles, several strikes, and blocks). How would you go about systematically teaching them to integrate the motions they have thus far?

    Your thoughts are welcome.

    Cheers,

    Steven Brown
    UKF
    The Yellow & Orange belts should not be working so much in the spontaneity as they should be working on correcting and cementing their basics.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    bujuts is offline
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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    The Yellow & Orange belts should not be working so much in the spontaneity as they should be working on correcting and cementing their basics.
    Greetings, thanks for the response.

    I agree with you. Nothing is more important than correct basics, save perhaps the mental and ethical aspects of dealing with an engagement. But at this point we have put in their minds a very classical paradigm: "practice your basics, of course, they are the foundation of all that you do. And these techniques? Someday, you will see how it all fits together, and you will over the years develop the capacity to "free flow" from one technique to another."

    So, on comes purple belt, more techniques but the basics are better. Do they learn a basis for developing their own sponteneity then? Blue? Brown? 3rd Black? What is the basis (if wany) by which they can learn to discard the technique paradigm and understand how to function freely with technique-like sophistication? To clarify, I differentiate this notion of sponteneity from "sparring". Few under black belt can "spar" at the level of sophistication they do their techniques, and in fact this holds true for many black belts.

    Many kenpoists have developed matrices, family trees, groupings, sub-groupings, etc. as part of a (very natural) effort to simplify the system in their minds and connect the many scattered dots. If basics are words, techniques are other people's sentences used to learn how to write and speak. But what point in their edcuation to we allow them to make their own sentence (even it is "ball is red" - its got a noun, got a verb, and an adjective, completely fitting the scenario as perceived by the student), and to what extent?

    I ask these questions not because I have the answers, but to stir the pot a bit, and, to be honest, challenge a few classical paradigms that I believe still pervade some aspects of kenpo of various sorts. One of these paradigms is "some day, this stuff will all come together for you and work extremely effectively, but until then, you young ambitious yellow belt, you just aren't seeing the big picture." I cry nonsense to this. Show them the core of the system up front. Kenpo is very simple system when boiled down to a handful of principles. When it seems complicated is when we establish a littany of prescribed combinations and ask later that the student figure out, often on their own, to glean from this maze what is needed. So, I don't entirely agree that white and yellow belts shouldn't be exposed to how to make their own Clifford or Curious George-level sentences according to their vocabulary (but, mind you, not at the expense of better basics).

    My personal opinion? Take more time in the ranks. Not too easy in a commercial setting, I'm sure. But 1 - 2 years as a white belt is not unreasonable, granted the system as taught is rich enough to fill that size of a cup.

    Done, off my soapbox, time for coffee and hw. Great discussion all. I look forward to any and all responses.

    Steven Brown
    Universal Kenpo Federation
    Last edited by bujuts; 04-14-2007 at 08:39 AM.

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    Default Re: Free Flow...

    Quote Originally Posted by bujuts View Post
    Greetings, thanks for the response.

    I agree with you. Nothing is more important than correct basics, save perhaps the mental and ethical aspects of dealing with an engagement. But at this point we have put in their minds a very classical paradigm: "practice your basics, of course, they are the foundation of all that you do. And these techniques? Someday, you will see how it all fits together, and you will over the years develop the capacity to "free flow" from one technique to another."

    So, on comes purple belt, more techniques but the basics are better. Do they learn a basis for developing their own sponteneity then? Blue? Brown? 3rd Black? What is the basis (if wany) by which they can learn to discard the technique paradigm and understand how to function freely with technique-like sophistication? To clarify, I differentiate this notion of sponteneity from "sparring". Few under black belt can "spar" at the level of sophistication they do their techniques, and in fact this holds true for many black belts.

    Many kenpoists have developed matrices, family trees, groupings, sub-groupings, etc. as part of a (very natural) effort to simplify the system in their minds and connect the many scattered dots. If basics are words, techniques are other people's sentences used to learn how to write and speak. But what point in their edcuation to we allow them to make their own sentence (even it is "ball is red" - its got a noun, got a verb, and an adjective, completely fitting the scenario as perceived by the student), and to what extent?

    I ask these questions not because I have the answers, but to stir the pot a bit, and, to be honest, challenge a few classical paradigms that I believe still pervade some aspects of kenpo of various sorts. One of these paradigms is "some day, this stuff will all come together for you and work extremely effectively, but until then, you young ambitious yellow belt, you just aren't seeing the big picture." I cry nonsense to this. Show them the core of the system up front. Kenpo is very simple system when boiled down to a handful of principles. When it seems complicated is when we establish a littany of prescribed combinations and ask later that the student figure out, often on their own, to glean from this maze what is needed. So, I don't entirely agree that white and yellow belts shouldn't be exposed to how to make their own Clifford or Curious George-level sentences according to their vocabulary (but, mind you, not at the expense of better basics).

    My personal opinion? Take more time in the ranks. Not too easy in a commercial setting, I'm sure. But 1 - 2 years as a white belt is not unreasonable, granted the system as taught is rich enough to fill that size of a cup.

    Done, off my soapbox, time for coffee and hw. Great discussion all. I look forward to any and all responses.

    Steven Brown
    Universal Kenpo Federation

    I am of the mind that the stdent can be introduce to the equation formula for their Purple Belt test and they can start by usingg it on a few yellow belt techniques. This does two things, gets them thinking creatively and also makes them review some previous material. In the past when I have done this I allowed the student to 1 thing to a technique for 5 of the techniques. So in Delayed Sword they may inser something or in Alternating Maces tehy may Suffix etc... For Blue Belt test they can use the Equation formula on 10 Orange Belt techniques and so on for each belt after.

    Very simple method, great way of putting in some review, and get the students learning new ideas all the time.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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