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Thread: American Kenpo's "New" Voice

  1. #21
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    Default Re: American Kenpo's "New" Voice

    "First, let me clear up a couple of misconceptions that has brought much unfounded criticism from “outsiders” to the first American Martial Art who say American Kenpo was taught as an incomplete art but, they, somehow KNOW, the complete art. Interestingly, these people all claim to be legitimized by a prior member of the Family Tree, but still teach the system that My Father had began to organize. The Mitose and Chow lineage systems are still around today, but if you compare the number of Ed Parker studios to any other you will see that the Parker lineage studios clearly out number any others. Mitose came to My Father in the early sixties in Pasadena with the idea of a collaboration between the two. The philosophical differences between them were significant enough for My Dad to decline."
    To me the above quote could easily be directed at the Tracy's, and others that claim to have the entire art before Parker created the commercial version based on motion.

    It also touches on Parker's desire to not be associated with Mitose.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: American Kenpo's "New" Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    There is no comparison sir. They are not the same thing nor are they used for the same purpose. BAM Body Alignment Mechanism, PAM Platform ALignment Mechanism. Designed to set and adjust alignment for physical optimization of the activity at hand according to anatomical mandates. Taught on a situation by situation basis, and there is no simplistic rule as to when, where, or how without context.

    You misunderstand. What some were calling a "stomp" recently, is actually Ed Parker performing a PAM. Not a kicking like stomp, but an alignment adjustment carried out through the feet to marry the upper and lower platforms for increased stability and structure through the adjustment of the relationship of the legs to the upper body.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    There are no BAM’s or “Slap-Checks,” or PAM’s (stomps as some call them) in any of his execution. Yet, video of Parker execution reveals these, and other mechanisms that appear nowhere within any published written account by Ed Parker. Clear evidence he did one thing while disseminating massively something different.
    SLAP-CHECK - At the beginning level, a completely generic term for a hit that may be used offensively and/or defensively that positions the hands and assists timing, and/or power through directional harmony.
    BODY ALIGNMENT MECHANISM (BAM) – Any physical action that results in the proper alignment of the body substructure relative to the desired action.
    PARRY- Redirecting a blow or kick by riding or going with the force.


    BODY ALIGNMENT MECHANISM (B.A.M.) – A slapping-like action that performs the function of aligning, and bracing of the body. It may be used on the upper and lower portions of the body.
    PLATFORM ALIGNING MECHANISM (PAM) – A physical action that re-sets or aligns components of the platform or pedestal components, either singularly or as a unit for total structural integrity and coordination with the upper body.

    In both Scrapping Hoof and Locking Horns is there not stomps to the top of the foot at the tibia and further down onto the cuneiforms? Yes on scrapping hoof we have the two kicks before that and than the scrape down to the foot to a stomp.

    I am probably totally off and don't see it. And if so could you explain a little more? This is pretty interesting.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

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    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

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    Default Re: American Kenpo's "New" Voice

    Not all stomps are strikes, and not all alignment mechanisms are stomps. You can get to a slap check off a parry, but not all parries are slap checks, and there are many slap checks that are not parries.

    Clear as mud, si?

    The stomps to the tops of feet are different than the stomps used for structural alignment and neuromechanical congruency. For structural integrity, tis best to strike a flatish surface with a flatish foot. The stomps to the dorsum of the feet of an opponent not only prevent this flat surface-to-surface strike of the foot, they also require you to juke your body a bit to properly fit weapon to target...misaligning yourself in the process. The stomps in Scraping Hoof are neither advancing nor retreating, and propriocpetion has a great deal to do with directionality as a component of locality. Scraping Hoof has some interesting issues for a sort of sterognosis through the feet for finding position while fitting, but as written, is tough on personal alignment. Compromises balance, and stability in exchange for technique.

    Which raises another concern: Should stability be sacrificed at points for breif moments for the sake of technique, or should technique be modified to account for adaptations that stress "stability first"?

    That question alone -- and where you stand on it -- could divide an entire religion. I mean, hobby.

    For what it's worth,

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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  5. #24
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    Default Re: American Kenpo's "New" Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    Which raises another concern: Should stability be sacrificed at points for breif moments for the sake of technique, or should technique be modified to account for adaptations that stress "stability first"?

    That question alone -- and where you stand on it -- could divide an entire religion. I mean, hobby.

    For what it's worth,

    D.
    This is so concise and so true a description of many of the "arguements" around "proper" Kenpo. It's also funny, deep and will go over many people's heads.
    James Hawkins III, SI
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    Default Re: American Kenpo's "New" Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoJuJitsu3 View Post
    This is so concise and so true a description of many of the "arguements" around "proper" Kenpo. It's also funny, deep and will go over many people's heads.
    Yup.

    Oh wait...

    *puts on hat*

    *ahem*

    What?
    ~ Steve Zalazowski
    Continuing Student of the Arts.

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    Default Re: American Kenpo's "New" Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate View Post
    BAM's and PAM's. How do parries compare to slap checks? Not all parries hold on, i.e. Circling Fans and The Back Breaker. As for stomps, for instance the extension of Locking Horns deffinitely has stomps and so does Scrapping Hoof.
    the search function here and on MT will reveal many hours of reading on these topics. but you might wake up in a jelly-filled sack with a wire sticking out of your head, so read at your own risk LOL

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    Default Re: American Kenpo's "New" Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Ed Parker hadn’t finished the core of his system when he passed. You must realize Parker was in the midst of an evolutionary process. There was no one “system” as Parker evolved from Kenpo-Karate, to Chinese Kenpo, to American Kenpo, and then diverted his attention to Ed Parker’s Kenpo-Karate to support his evolving American Kenpo. In actuality there was/is no “Ed Parker’s American kenpo Karate.” An oxymoron for sure, he attached his name only to the art he sold, but not to “American Kenpo,” which was supposed to be an extension of his Chinese kenpo, and was not influenced by a “karate’ reference or source. The lines have always been blurred on this issue, for a variety of reasons, including a large quantity of patches already in hand.

    Anyone who would examine film and video of Mr. Parker with a critical eye should detect an interesting series of changes. Viewed from the beginning in the film project he and Chuck Sullivan began in the late fifties (which I have), to his most recent exposure, there is a clear evolution in the way he moved, and the mechanisms he employed. Moving from the hard linear to a more fluid and dynamic execution, Parker became faster as he aged, more efficient, and clearly deceptive in his applications. Those who were fortunate to know and see, or view film of Haumea Lefiti would see a striking similarity in the two.

    Contrast that to the film and video made specifically for reference instruction, or video while instructing the masses in seminars, and there is a distinct difference between his own applications, and the instructions he was giving others in these open venues. He constantly would instruct those present to do one thing, but when he exploded to demonstrate, he would do something subtlety, (and sometimes not so subtlety) quite different. A good example of this is film he made of all the basic core techniques in 1968 when he began the divergence he called Ed Parker’s kenpo Karate. Those techniques for those in E.P.K.K. (Ed Parker’s Kenpo Karate) have virtually remained unchanged to this day for most. There are no BAM’s or “Slap-Checks,” or PAM’s (stomps as some call them) in any of his execution. Yet, video of Parker execution reveals these, and other mechanisms that appear nowhere within any published written account by Ed Parker. Clear evidence he did one thing while disseminating massively something different.

    Any valid discussion of Ed Parker material must acknowledge this evolutionary process, as well as recognize there has never been a singular timeline, nor is what most have arrived at the end product of Parker’s evolution. If it were, it would include a clear understanding and codification of the mechanisms he was performing consistently when he passed. Only recently, have some “discovered” the “Parker Stomp,” and unknowingly attributed it to the nebulous, conceptual “Gravitational Marriage.” This is humorously a long way from Parker’s understanding and application, but highlights the disparity between the mass product and Mr. Parker’s personal knowledge and skill. Keep in mind sir, that my perspective is colored by my personal relationship with Mr. Parker, and the fact I never entered the business side of kenpo, which almost everyone else did.

    Doc,

    This was why I started watching what you had to say and listening to you when I did. I was watching old Tapes of Mr. Parker and he was clearly saying one thing and doing another. Most people watch and listen and only see their preconceptions. I've been cursed all of my life by the inability to always let my preconceptions get in my way. When I watched Mr. Parker he wasn't doing what he said or what he had written. I wanted to learn to do what he did and not be limited by what was said or written. Fortunately i have an instructor who encourages me to test, question and look for the answers I seek. I'm a long way off from reaching the understanding I would like but i have a better idea of what I'm looking for and appreciate what I've been able to glean from this site.

    thanks,

    Jeff

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    Default Re: American Kenpo's "New" Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpodoc View Post
    Doc,

    This was why I started watching what you had to say and listening to you when I did. I was watching old Tapes of Mr. Parker and he was clearly saying one thing and doing another. Most people watch and listen and only see their preconceptions. I've been cursed all of my life by the inability to always let my preconceptions get in my way. When I watched Mr. Parker he wasn't doing what he said or what he had written. I wanted to learn to do what he did and not be limited by what was said or written. Fortunately i have an instructor who encourages me to test, question and look for the answers I seek. I'm a long way off from reaching the understanding I would like but i have a better idea of what I'm looking for and appreciate what I've been able to glean from this site.

    thanks,

    Jeff
    No sir, I thank you. The purpose of these interactions is that all of us may grow, and come away better for the exchange of information. Mr. Parker didn't want any of us to "stand pat" and insist that whatever of kenpo we had arrived at was somehow the peak of available information. It is one thing to be satisfied where you are, another to decide that where you are is the best available to everyone. He said it in so many ways, but few listened and most presumed he was talking about "the other guy." He wasn't. He was talking about all of us regardless of rank, tenure, or intellect. Thanks again sir.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

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  12. #29
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    Default Re: American Kenpo's "New" Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    the search function here and on MT will reveal many hours of reading on these topics. but you might wake up in a jelly-filled sack with a wire sticking out of your head, so read at your own risk LOL
    A veiled "Matrix" reference from the brainy computer geek. Figures.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: American Kenpo's "New" Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    A veiled "Matrix" reference from the brainy computer geek. Figures.
    Resistance is Futile?
    ~ Steve Zalazowski
    Continuing Student of the Arts.

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    Default Re: American Kenpo's "New" Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    No sir, I thank you. The purpose of these interactions is that all of us may grow, and come away better for the exchange of information. Mr. Parker didn't want any of us to "stand pat" and insist that whatever of kenpo we had arrived at was somehow the peak of available information. It is one thing to be satisfied where you are, another to decide that where you are is the best available to everyone. He said it in so many ways, but few listened and most presumed he was talking about "the other guy." He wasn't. He was talking about all of us regardless of rank, tenure, or intellect. Thanks again sir.
    Excellent post.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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