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Thread: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

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    Default Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    James Hawkins III, SI
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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Wow, do they all move differently.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    That looks like Jim Frederick in #1.

    Who are #2 and #3? Obviously the last ones are Larry and Huk.

    It's very interesting to see the differences in how they do the form. Some are more flowery, some are more crisp, some focus on stance changes, some focus on hands.

    Thanks for sharing those.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    There are very distinct differences between all five: one with an emphasis on technique sets (definite space in between), one with flowing smoothness, another with speed and precision, another with intensity and form, and another with focus and power.

    I felt the fifth one was my favorite. I sat back to think it over, wondering why it's my favorite. The conclusion was that he moved most closely like my instructor (although I highly doubt that my instructor ever worked out with him).

    Nevertheless, with all five, I learned something from each of them and look to myself with new eyes; perhaps I can tweak my own forms to become better with how I move.

    - Ceicei
    Studying martial arts is for life, not for the color of the belt.

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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    That looks like Jim Frederick in #1.

    Who are #2 and #3? Obviously the last ones are Larry and Huk.

    It's very interesting to see the differences in how they do the form. Some are more flowery, some are more crisp, some focus on stance changes, some focus on hands.

    Thanks for sharing those.

    --Amy
    #1 Jim Frederick
    #2 Jim Mitchell
    #3 Mohamad Tabatabai
    #4 Larry Tatum
    #5 Richard "Huk" Planas
    James Hawkins III, SI
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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    James,

    I enjoyed the clips.
    Iím curious as who Jim learned 4 from. When he tested for the first time in front of Mr. Parker he was testing for third but really didnít know much of the EPAK system. As I recall he didnít perform 4.
    His movements are vastly different from Mr. Planzoís, who did he learn 4 from?

    Yours in Kenpo,

    Mike G.

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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    The flavor of Mohammad's most closely resembles where I was at when I actually did 4. I've become so obsessed with what happens in the spaces between movements, that training an entire tech form without taking the next 10 years to dissect the in-betweens of it is unfathomable to me. And pointless.

    But I sure did enjoy the clips. I suspect I would opt to review from Huk's, if ever I chose to return.

    Thanks!

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    A very interesting thread, James!

    After watching all five videos... it's like they are all the same; yet, each has it's own personal interpretation. Iíd liken it to five different cooks all making a pot of chicken soup. Each starts with the same base, but the end products each have a different taste to them.

    Admittedly, I was unfamiliar with the Kenpoists in videos 1-3 (although once you said #3 was Mr. TabaTabai it clicked). But Mr. Tatum and Mr. Planas (IMHO) looked like they were right on the money... balanced, fluid (especially Mr. Tatum), with power to spare...

    After reading Ceicei's comments... I can see what she is saying about each form being performed with a different focus.

    Thank you for taking the time to locate and post these!

    Your Brother in the arts,

    Andrew
    Andrew M. Goodwin - Student of the arts
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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Overall, I liked Larry Tatum's continuity and flow when comparing them.

    I also like seeing the form done full speed, which is one of the reasons why I also liked Mohammad's.

    It would be interesting to have seen them all do it at regular speed.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Thanks for the vids James
    I really enjoyed Tatums and Mitchells
    I've never seen Mitchell before and was quite impressed

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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Alleydog View Post
    James,

    I enjoyed the clips.
    Iím curious as who Jim learned 4 from. When he tested for the first time in front of Mr. Parker he was testing for third but really didnít know much of the EPAK system. As I recall he didnít perform 4.
    His movements are vastly different from Mr. Planzoís, who did he learn 4 from?

    Yours in Kenpo,

    Mike G.
    Palanzo and Heins to my knowledge as I'm told Kleimisch didn't/doesn't know Form 4. I also see certain parts of Form 4 that Jim has apparently changed as looking at this video from his DVD series doesn't even match the first version of 4 I learned from him in '98. Speaking of November 90 I was just looking at that footage this weekend and recognized you being used by Mr. Parker to demonstrate a few concepts. I don't know why it JUST hit me that it was you as many times as I have watched this. You had a lot more hair then
    James Hawkins III, SI
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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoJuJitsu3 View Post
    Palanzo and Heins to my knowledge as I'm told Kleimisch didn't/doesn't know Form 4. I also see certain parts of Form 4 that Jim has apparently changed as looking at this video from his DVD series doesn't even match the first version of 4 I learned from him in '98. Speaking of November 90 I was just looking at that footage this weekend and recognized you being used by Mr. Parker to demonstrate a few concepts. I don't know why it JUST hit me that it was you as many times as I have watched this. You had a lot more hair then
    Mr. Palanzo deffinitely knows Long Form 4, we spent a whole night working the heck out of it the last time I was home.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate View Post
    Mr. Palanzo deffinitely knows Long Form 4, we spent a whole night working the heck out of it the last time I was home.
    Uhh David... Who said Mr. Palanzo doesn't know 4?
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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    I really like the Huk version. There is a relaxed flow to it, but you can still see there is enough power waiting in reserve at anytime to be devastating. I have notice that Huk has a very relaxed timing in all his techniques but he is always dead on, and very very accurate.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Nice James!

    Thanks for bringing all this together for us.

    Excellent!
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Well nobody asked, (but that has never stopped me before )

    #! Richard

    #2 Larry

    #3 Jim Mitchell

    #4 Muhammad

    #5 Jim Fredricks
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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoJuJitsu3 View Post
    Uhh David... Who said Mr. Palanzo doesn't know 4?

    LOL! yea you thought you could get it by me huh? I got you.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


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    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Well nobody asked, (but that has never stopped me before )

    #! Richard

    #2 Larry

    #3 Jim Mitchell

    #4 Muhammad

    #5 Jim Fredricks
    Uh oh. Here we go...
    James Hawkins III, SI
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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Well nobody asked, (but that has never stopped me before )

    #! Richard

    #2 Larry

    #3 Jim Mitchell

    #4 Muhammad

    #5 Jim Fredricks

    Doc can we get a reason why you chose them in that order?
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Many Different Flavors of Form 4

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoJuJitsu3 View Post
    Uhh David... Who said Mr. Palanzo doesn't know 4?
    Yea I had to read your two guys posts a few times. Got it now.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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