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Thread: The Parker Cult

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    Default Re: The Parker Cult

    Quote Originally Posted by MHeeler
    Hello all,

    Who the heck cares about Ed Parker?

    What I mean is: why are Kenpo folks so caught up over what Ed Parker did or said? He's been dead some 15 years now, right? How and why does he still have such an impact on people's thoughts and ideas about their art?
    Once again, I'd like to state for the record that I mean absolutely NO disrespect to Ed Parker or his family.

    Curious to see how this will go,
    MH
    That's like saying who cares about Aristotle. His influence is still evidenced and often a footnote in almost every college textbook ranging from math to biology to astronomy to physics to philosphy etc, etc, etc...
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: The Parker Cult

    Quote Originally Posted by kalicombat
    I haven't had much time lately to be on here, but the thread has taken some interesting turns. I have a few takes; first, in regards to the AKKI creating anything, I'll keep my opinion. Rythmic timing, not new. Knife material based on kenpo principles, not new. Reformulating techniques, not new. I looked around KENPOTALK at the wars the AKKI guys and the LTKKA guys have had. It looks like most of my arguments have been brought up, addressed, hashed, and rehashed. We will agree to disagree on this point.

    Secondly, the groundfighting phenomenon has found it's way into this thread. Like one of younze said, its been discussed ad nauseum, so all I'll say is that it is highly over rated, and has gotten alot of grapplers hurt in bars, bathrooms, and parking lots. It is a sport, as are some facets of kenpo, but not all of us are in this thing for sport.

    Next, the kenpo world and its admiration/adoration of SGM Parker is not a cult. It is set up more like an organized crime family. In fact, I am working on a piece entitled LA KENPO NOSTRA. When it is complete, I will put it up for everyones critque.

    I will leave the governmental part of this thread alone. Im not a conspiracy theorist, and I pretty much live by what I feel is appropriate. Im not bound by anyones views, mores, or fears. The government has far less control over our lives then many believe, including the government. Nuff said.

    The one thing that hasnt found its way into this discussion is the thing that drives kenpo for me; passion. I'm not gonna argue the thousand ways to execute any given technique, but Im gonna make the technique work for me, If I have to change something, so be it. Ive been at this long enough to know what works, and what doesnt. I know what my strengths are, and I'll allow kenpo to work by being opened minded enough to make it work. Scientific principles abound in kenpo, but for me,it has much more to do with the individual kenpoists' mindset. Intent is important, working your ass off to be able to carry out that intent is crucial, but never discount the power of anger. Anger and rage are fuel for the fire, not the kenpo flame, but the life flame. It also goes very far in igniting passion. It's an individual philosophy.

    Next, the whole theory of evolving kenpo beyond EPAK is kind of odd to me. The thug in the ATM waiting for you to get your money is not so different then the thugs of yester-year waiting outside a bank, saloon, etc.... He may look different, have a different reason for his vile actions, and he may be toting a more advanced weapon, but he is still the same scumbag that has the same bad intentions The truth is that not much has changed over the last hundred years. There were criminals, muggers, rowdie drunks, and strung out dopers around a hundred years ago, and guess what, they all bled then as they do now. Their vulnerable spots were targets back then, as they are now. Im content with the system we all refer to as EPAK. It is a viable means to squelching the bad intentions of the scumbags looking to prey on innocent victims. What I cant handle with kenpo, passion, or rage, I can pick up with my Cold Steel, Beretta, or Remington.

    Yours in Kenpo
    Gary Catherman
    Good to see you here brother. Can't wait to read your La Kenpo Nostra, sounds interesting.

    Salute,
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

  3. #103
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    Default Re: The Parker Cult

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe
    As for Mr. Parker, He was a great innovator, and he obviously is one of the most influential martial arts masters of all time. Having said that, I just wish he cared a fraction as much about his teacher than you all do about him.

    James
    Which teacher are you referring to. I never met Mr. Parker but I've never read anything that he wrote disparaging Mr. Chow. The Parker students I've met always have made it clear that Mr. Parker appreciated and respected the base art that Mr. Chow taught him.

    As to the cult of Edmund Parker, it's the only Cult I've ever joined and so far it's been a blast.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: The Parker Cult

    I was fortunate to meet SGM Parker twice once at a tournament and once a very long seminar followed by dinner. During the dinner he spoke very fondly of Chow, then he told some very funny stories that had us in stitches.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Old questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nonomenclature
    I realize this is an old topic, but it is an interesting one; so I will post my $.02.

    I think Mr. Parker understood that Kenpo would, and should, evolve.

    Is it a cult? Nope. More like a circle of respect. After all, how much differently would we look at the Mona Lisa had Da Vinci explained the details to us?

    Gotta give respect where it's due; that's all.
    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    A cult?

    No, not so much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    The idea that Parker followers are somehow members of a 'cult' would seem to belie his method of encouraging freedom of thought and expression in the arts, and an unwillingness to specifically tell anyone anyone way of doing anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    That's like saying who cares about Aristotle. His influence is still evidenced and often a footnote in almost every college textbook ranging from math to biology to astronomy to physics to philosphy etc, etc, etc...
    Every one of these questions and concerns were already addressed during the dialogue within this thread. The term "cult" was used facetiously, and explanations were offered when questions were asked at that time. Why resurrect an eight month old thread if you're not going to bother to read it?

    MH
    Man has only those rights he can defend.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Old questions

    Quote Originally Posted by MHeeler
    Every one of these questions and concerns were already addressed during the dialogue within this thread. The term "cult" was used facetiously, and explanations were offered when questions were asked at that time. Why resurrect an eight month old thread if you're not going to bother to read it?

    MH
    Sorry, but I was being equally as facetious, with my feelings with regard to the commericial art being wholly conceptial and physically undefined, being well documented.

    Maybe this will help.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: Old questions

    Quote Originally Posted by MHeeler
    Every one of these questions and concerns were already addressed during the dialogue within this thread. The term "cult" was used facetiously, and explanations were offered when questions were asked at that time. Why resurrect an eight month old thread if you're not going to bother to read it?

    MH
    I certainly knew it wasn't seriously being called a 'cult.'

    I was trying to find something clever and witty to say and I obviously fell far short of my mark.

    Ah, well. Next time.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: The Parker Cult

    Most responders understood the facetious nature of the Cult nature of Mr. Parkers followers. Personally I was drawn to the suggestion that Mr. Parker was not respectful of his teachers.
    Jeff

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    Default Too quick for my own good!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    Sorry, but I was being equally as facetious, with my feelings with regard to the commericial art being wholly conceptial and physically undefined, being well documented.
    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    I certainly knew it wasn't seriously being called a 'cult.'

    I was trying to find something clever and witty to say and I obviously fell far short of my mark.

    Ah, well. Next time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpodoc
    Most responders understood the facetious nature of the Cult nature of Mr. Parkers followers.
    No, I'm sorry. I was just trying to be preemptive and stave off any misunderstandings. When this thread was originally active, there was considerable tension in it and surrounding it. Many of the posts at the beginning of this thread are a good example. My apologies if I seemed a little abrupt.

    Thanks,
    MH
    Man has only those rights he can defend.

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    Default Re: The Parker Cult

    The teacher I believe Dian is referring to is Mr. Chow. They had a falling out of sorts well before most of us knew what kenpo was. Have heard multiple versions of it; doesn't matter now, as they are both with the stars.

    As for an Ed Parker cult...I have bought special purple sweats, nike shoes, have blown-up posters all over my room of Lord Parker, and pray for his omniscient guidance every night. OK..not really; I lied about the shoes.

    BUTT seriously...for kenpoists that recall what it was like to be on the mat with him...very few in kenpo will attain that level of skill. The guy was a phenom, and quite talented.

    I loved this joke:
    Al Tracy dies and to his surprise goes to heaven-
    the first thing he does is grab an Angel and ask:
    "Is Ed Parker here too?"
    The Angel goes "why, no he's not" --
    Al's so happy cause he can finally exist without the
    shadow of Ed Parker looming over him- so he's
    wandering along in the clouds whistling a tune when
    suddenly he hears all this whiz bang popping going on
    -he races over to the sounds and sees on a cloud near
    by, this big guy jumping and flashing the most awesome
    Kenpo techniques he's ever witnessed- his heart sinks
    and he looks over at an angel and says:
    "damn, they told me that Ed Parker wasn't here!"
    the angel looks over at the big guy and says..............
    "Oh that ain't Ed Parker- that's God... he just thinks
    he's Ed Parker"
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: The Parker Cult

    I apologize that my comment came off poorly I mean no disrespect and I certainly did not know GGM Parker, so I should not have speculated about his support of Professor, but Professor Chow lived at or near poverty even up until his last days which I think most on here will agree is sad-

    Here is a portion of a post by Grandmaster Kuoha from MT:

    "And to rest everyone's mind, our two small schools here in San Diego were the only ones that supported him and his wife throughout their life. Our small organization then even set up an account at the bank in Hawaii and every month all his bills were paid from money that we put into and he was given money that month to live off of. When he passed away there was over $4,000 in coins in shoe boxes hidden under his bed and when Patsy Chow was asked where all that money came from, her response was Samuel. After Professor's death we took care of Patsy Chow also and put her in a real good home where we paid about 25% of her expenses, then twice a month we paid my sister (who lives there) to go and pick her up and get her things that she might need and to take her to the gravesite to visit Professor. There was no one else that did that and that was confirmed by his advisor, Dr. Perry. He stated that everyone took from Professor but people forgot to give back."
    The above is just my opinion.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: The Parker Cult

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house
    I loved this joke:
    Al Tracy dies and to his surprise goes to heaven-
    the first thing he does is grab an Angel and ask:
    "Is Ed Parker here too?"
    The Angel goes "why, no he's not" --
    Al's so happy cause he can finally exist without the
    shadow of Ed Parker looming over him- so he's
    wandering along in the clouds whistling a tune when
    suddenly he hears all this whiz bang popping going on
    -he races over to the sounds and sees on a cloud near
    by, this big guy jumping and flashing the most awesome
    Kenpo techniques he's ever witnessed- his heart sinks
    and he looks over at an angel and says:
    "damn, they told me that Ed Parker wasn't here!"
    the angel looks over at the big guy and says..............
    "Oh that ain't Ed Parker- that's God... he just thinks
    he's Ed Parker"
    I loved it also and had to pass it on.

    Thanks,
    -Michael
    “The superior man cultivates a friendly harmony, without being weak.—How firm is he in his energy! He stands erect in the middle without inclining to either side.—How firm is he in his energy!”
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    Default Re: The Parker Cult

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe
    I apologize that my comment came off poorly I mean no disrespect and I certainly did not know GGM Parker, so I should not have speculated about his support of Professor, but Professor Chow lived at or near poverty even up until his last days which I think most on here will agree is sad-
    I was aware of Professor "Thunderbolt" Chows fiscal situation and it was a very sad situation overall.

    -Michael
    “The superior man cultivates a friendly harmony, without being weak.—How firm is he in his energy! He stands erect in the middle without inclining to either side.—How firm is he in his energy!”
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    Default Re: The Parker Cult

    Things fell to the ground before Newton discovered the law of gravity...he was brilliant and is still remembered today.

    People trained in MA before Ed Parker used kinesiology and other scientific disciplines to analyze it. He created a system which can be used to teach not only "how" but "why." He should be remembered for his brilliant contributions and creativity.

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    Default Re: The Parker Cult

    hmmmm ,A tree with no roots fights even the wind.

    hmmmm, A boat with dropped anchors goes nowhere,perhaps respect for the past and eyes on the future with balance as our guide should be our goal.I think it was a good question,nothing like spilling candles at the altar to find out where and in what we put our faith in

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    Default saying "Parker Cult" is a from of covert negative proganda!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary A Brewer View Post
    Hi Gary,

    I think your post is a good one.

    I just want to point out that Kosho Ryu people hold James Mitose in the same position as EPAK people hold Ed Parker.
    We consider William Chow a great practioner, just like we feel Ed Parker had a lot going for his inovations.

    The problem is when you use the word CULT. (I have done that in the past and only because a religious connection existed). So I can see where MHeeler might use this term (because of the numerous articles relegating EP to that position with his cult of admirers. The LDS church and all that. History has a way of showing up at times.)

    In these days you have Cult movies and Cult this and that, as in Elvis had his group of admirers, then some one uses it as his cult of admirers.

    It might bring some testi thoughts or remarks, but I thought MHeeler antedated his thinking with the original post. (redundant) so no point in going in a direction, as to attack.

    I also believe it is a legitemate response on your part. I believe this thread is being handled very well considering the fire that could erupt at any time.

    My main input is for you to remember it is James Mitose, Father of Thomas Mitose and Grandfather of Mark Mitose that we are making our (allegatons some might say) thoughts known, as to the founding person who brought Kem/npo to the Hawaiian Islands and then to the mainland in one form or another.

    Regards, Gary
    Gary,
    I do agree with you about his tactical use of the word "cult" in regards to Mr. Parker, which he did use deliberately.
    Now, I wonder why he chose to purposefully use a word that covertly installs disrespect and distrust.

    It was done on purpose.

    And then if you go and read his back posts, notice the same type of "insinuations" running through most of them.
    Curious.

    I wonder what his real intentions are?
    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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