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Thread: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

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    Default Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    James Hawkins III, SI
    Hawkins Martial Arts
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    http://www.youtube.com/user/FunctionalKenpo
    http://www.youtube.com/user/kenpojujitsu3

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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    I assume the shoulder slap just prior to the backfist was a BAM?
    Michael


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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    It also seemed to me, when he was explaining the tech to the student, that he demonstrated sort of a "mirrored" movement with the left hand, striking back in the other direction simultaneously, as he struck with the right. It was a movement that I could describe as sort of an "unfolding of the wings", and opened his chest more, transferring more body power into the strike (at least this is how I interpret it). I only saw him do it once, he did it in sort of slow motion, and I didn't really see that happen when he executed full speed.

    It caught my attention because it is very similar to a technique that we have in Tibetan White Crane.

    Edit: I just watched it again, and I saw him do this a few times in the slow motion. Seems like in the full-speed execution, the mirrored movement follows an instant after the right backfist.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Mr. Parker always amazes me with how much power he generates. What a brute lol.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    I assume the shoulder slap just prior to the backfist was a BAM?
    I've shown this clip over and over, and you're the first person to notice the BAM outside of my teaching. You notice he's demonstrating to Sascha Willimas "what" to do, but Sascha "insists" on just repeating what he was already doing. Parker's response to him not "getting it." "OK" and just moves on. Good obs sir.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoJuJitsu3 View Post
    James thanks again brother. Keep 'em coming. I put up a new short clip on youtube also but nothing compared to your contributions!
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Thanks again. Keep them coming
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Thanks, enjoyed that one too. Did you watch the one from martinsneck? Its a clip from another tape, but I can't recall which one? It just shows Mr.Parker Sr. moving through some kenpo postures. From here to there etc.. I just think he could really move, and I enjoy watching him, or any good EPAK practioner strut their stuff.

    1stJohn1:9

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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    I've shown this clip over and over, and you're the first person to notice the BAM outside of my teaching. You notice he's demonstrating to Sascha Willimas "what" to do, but Sascha "insists" on just repeating what he was already doing. Parker's response to him not "getting it." "OK" and just moves on. Good obs sir.
    I remember a couple years back...you were taking a lot of heat for saying, "The kenpo Parker taught was not the same as the kenpo Parker did." I got a kick out of it, because I had noticed the same thing, and developed an intense obsession with the "how" he moved as opposed to "what" he was doing while he moved; techniques were merely mental masturbations of rearrangement around conceptual frameworks...the kenpo, to me, was in the details embedded within each motion; but nobody wantd to hear it. Certainly nobody invested in kenpo based on technique sequential content, category completion, etc.

    Kenpo done well is the specific performance details, and the concepts & principles that inform that movement. The rest are the chalk and chalk-board the lessons are taught through, not the lesson. Or, with a bowl-game around the corner, the play-book (which, once the ball is snapped, turns into a scramble that ultimately relies on the previous preparation of the players -- Thanks for that, Mr. Conatser)...not the play.

    And now we have footage on the web of Mr. Parker trying to teach something, and a room full of black belts NOT getting the same specific performance parameters exhibited by the old man. For him who has ears to hear and eyes to see...

    Hey Doc...how many folks do you supose will see this, then go right back to their alignment-free kenpo, missing force multipliers and structural integrity, but convinced they're doing great kenpo?

    D.
    Last edited by Dr. Dave in da house; 01-31-2007 at 12:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Interesting. SGM Parker did seem to be utilizing the BAM concept. I've played around with it a little bit since the last in-depth discussion on BAM's. I've noticed a difference but haven't come to any conclusions as of yet. I tend to be a bit methodical with some material, but can't discount the possible benefits.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    I've shown this clip over and over, and you're the first person to notice the BAM outside of my teaching. You notice he's demonstrating to Sascha Willimas "what" to do, but Sascha "insists" on just repeating what he was already doing. Parker's response to him not "getting it." "OK" and just moves on. Good obs sir.

    thank you. I guess once you're clued into them, they aren't as hard to see. I may not understand the ins-and-outs of them, but I can see it. You have stated before, that Mr. Parker can be seen doing them in numerous videos, if you know what to look for. I see you are correct, this is a clear example. Thank you.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    thank you. I guess once you're clued into them, they aren't as hard to see. I may not understand the ins-and-outs of them, but I can see it. You have stated before, that Mr. Parker can be seen doing them in numerous videos, if you know what to look for. I see you are correct, this is a clear example. Thank you.
    This is also why you cannot teach by video. How can you when the education you're getting is from the same media where you don't know what you're looking at/for? My own students of late have become "video happy," shooting a lot of me teaching and performing. (I suspect there's a junta brewing) Even though they know what to look for in the lesson, I'm told they still can't see it executed sometimes, and they still miss a great deal. Considering I have "hands on" with them a few times a week, it speaks volumes of videos ability to convey meaningful physical information, even in "mimic mode." Mr. Parker also PAMed in the clip as well. There is much that can seen as examples in many of the clips, if you know what to look for, but it still won't teach you how to do it.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    This is also why you cannot teach by video. How can you when the education you're getting is from the same media where you don't know what you're looking at/for? My own students of late have become "video happy," shooting a lot of me teaching and performing. (I suspect there's a junta brewing) Even though they know what to look for in the lesson, I'm told they still can't see it executed sometimes, and they still miss a great deal. Considering I have "hands on" with them a few times a week, it speaks volumes of videos ability to convey meaningful physical information, even in "mimic mode." Mr. Parker also PAMed in the clip as well. There is much that can seen as examples in many of the clips, if you know what to look for, but it still won't teach you how to do it.
    Well...it does kind of help to have a competent and knowledgable instructor giving commentary, explanations, and instruction along with what's going on in the video, DVD, or webinar. I would agree that "video" alone can't do it.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    I remember a couple years back...you were taking a lot of heat for saying, "The kenpo Parker taught was not the same as the kenpo Parker did." I got a kick out of it, because I had noticed the same thing, and developed an intense obsession with the "how" he moved as opposed to "what" he was doing while he moved; techniques were merely mental masturbations of rearrangement around conceptual frameworks...the kenpo, to me, was in the details embedded within each motion; but nobody wantd to hear it. Certainly nobody invested in kenpo based on technique sequential content, category completion, etc.

    Kenpo done well is the specific performance details, and the concepts & principles that inform that movement. The rest are the chalk and chalk-board the lessons are taught through, not the lesson. Or, with a bowl-game around the corner, the play-book (which, once the ball is snapped, turns into a scramble that ultimately relies on the previous preparation of the players -- Thanks for that, Mr. Conatser)...not the play.

    And now we have footage on the web of Mr. Parker trying to teach something, and a room full of black belts NOT getting the same specific performance parameters exhibited by the old man. For him who has ears to hear and eyes to see...

    Hey Doc...how many folks do you supose will see this, then go right back to their alignment-free kenpo, missing force multipliers and structural integrity, but convinced they're doing great kenpo?

    D.
    Great point that most ignor or refuse to understand because it does not validate them. Techniques, forms, and sets are "what" you teach, to convey to students "how" to do something. They are "A" lesson, they are the philosophical methodology that allows you to convey "THE" lesson.

    I've just completed a two week lecture refresher on basic stances and footwork, and my own students were blown away on some material they've seen before. The material is voluminous, and can never be taught as simplistically as many would like.

    I see posters raving about body mechanics they clearly don't understand to be major flawed physically, and it simply reminds me how much they don't know, and how much I need to continue to work and expand my own knowledge and method.

    See you Sunday. - Go Colts!

    (They're doing a documentary on the group and will be shooting throughout the day, so bring some good kenpo stories)
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    This is also why you cannot teach by video. How can you when the education you're getting is from the same media where you don't know what you're looking at/for? My own students of late have become "video happy," shooting a lot of me teaching and performing. (I suspect there's a junta brewing) Even though they know what to look for in the lesson, I'm told they still can't see it executed sometimes, and they still miss a great deal. Considering I have "hands on" with them a few times a week, it speaks volumes of videos ability to convey meaningful physical information, even in "mimic mode." Mr. Parker also PAMed in the clip as well. There is much that can seen as examples in many of the clips, if you know what to look for, but it still won't teach you how to do it.

    I've always been in full agreement with regard to video instruction. The best that can be hoped for is rudimentary mimickry, there is far too much that is probably getting missed along the way with no chance for correction, and a "student" of video can develop a false sense of security in their skills that just might get them killed. Video is interesting to see what people are doing, and even to get small ideas and for creativity, but it should remain in the realm of intelectual. Trying to translate that into physical action in actually learning a system just doesn't work well. I've played with some video in the past, and ultimately have rejected everything that I have learned that way. If I didn't learn it from a human being, standing in front of me and correcting my mistakes, I don't want it. I'm just fooling myself otherwise.

    By the way, what are your thoughts on my comments in post #3, regarding the "mirrored" movement with the opposite arm, where it looks almost like he is doing a simultaneous left backfist in the opposite direction, as he does the right? Is there something there, or am I mistaken? thx.

    Mr. Parker had some insane speed, by the way. impressive.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Well...it does kind of help to have a competent and knowledgable instructor giving commentary, explanations, and instruction along with what's going on in the video, DVD, or webinar. I would agree that "video" alone can't do it.
    I should add that feedback from a competent, knowledgable instructor also helps whether they're in front of you or not. And that physical application with another person is needed. Regardless of the method, I think the key is having a competent instructor and recieving feedback on what you're doing.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    I've always been in full agreement with regard to video instruction. The best that can be hoped for is rudimentary mimickry, there is far too much that is probably getting missed along the way with no chance for correction, and a "student" of video can develop a false sense of security in their skills that just might get them killed. Video is interesting to see what people are doing, and even to get small ideas and for creativity, but it should remain in the realm of intelectual. Trying to translate that into physical action in actually learning a system just doesn't work well. I've played with some video in the past, and ultimately have rejected everything that I have learned that way. If I didn't learn it from a human being, standing in front of me and correcting my mistakes, I don't want it. I'm just fooling myself otherwise.

    By the way, what are your thoughts on my comments in post #3, regarding the "mirrored" movement with the opposite arm, where it looks almost like he is doing a simultaneous left backfist in the opposite direction, as he does the right? Is there something there, or am I mistaken? thx.

    Mr. Parker had some insane speed, by the way. impressive.
    Standard SL4 concept: The body seeks integrity by finding balance around a middle. At dinner with Doc and a Rolfer buddy of mine, he called it the pallentonic reflex. I'm guessing you gots a good eye.

    D
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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    Standard SL4 concept: The body seeks integrity by finding balance around a middle. At dinner with Doc and a Rolfer buddy of mine, he called it the pallentonic reflex. I'm guessing you gots a good eye.

    D

    I study Tibetan White Crane, and we have a very similar technique with the horizontal backfist. When I saw the movement, I recognized the similarity, wanted to make sure I wasn't mistaken.

    In fact, now that I think about it, the technique is done in a way that could almost be approaching that BAM that Mr. Parker did. The tech is thrown with a forward horizontal raking fist that closes to the chest, while pivoting with the entire body from the feet, up thru the hips and torso. It's an exaggerated pivot, compared to what most systems do, but I won't try to go into that here.

    At the same time the opposite hand closes as well. Then both fists whip out simultaneously with opposite backfists. There is a return body pivot with it, and the chest "unfolds", so to speak, as both backfists whip out. Increases power in the forward backfist, and makes life hazardous for anyone behind you as well.

    But it occured to me that the folding of the two hands into the chest, is a movement that is similar to that particular BAM. I've never been taught a specific slap to the shoulder or anything, but perhaps it is a concept that is built into our tech as well.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    This is also why you cannot teach by video. How can you when the education you're getting is from the same media where you don't know what you're looking at/for? My own students of late have become "video happy," shooting a lot of me teaching and performing. (I suspect there's a junta brewing) Even though they know what to look for in the lesson, I'm told they still can't see it executed sometimes, and they still miss a great deal. Considering I have "hands on" with them a few times a week, it speaks volumes of videos ability to convey meaningful physical information, even in "mimic mode." Mr. Parker also PAMed in the clip as well. There is much that can seen as examples in many of the clips, if you know what to look for, but it still won't teach you how to do it.
    Doc, i'll agree that you can't learn adequately from video. But this demonstrates the value and power of a video because it demonstrates so vividly the BAM and PAM. The tape doesn't show me what to do but it demonstrates well that I have something I need to seek out. For your students, Video is a reminder of what they learned, a memory nudge. For others the video may inspire others to look for the right teacher.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Another Mr. Parker Clip for Everyone....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpodoc View Post
    Doc, i'll agree that you can't learn adequately from video. But this demonstrates the value and power of a video because it demonstrates so vividly the BAM and PAM. The tape doesn't show me what to do but it demonstrates well that I have something I need to seek out. For your students, Video is a reminder of what they learned, a memory nudge. For others the video may inspire others to look for the right teacher.

    Jeff
    Agreed, however it took ten years of me on the internet to convince most people these two principles even exist and to even consider to look for them, AND only a couple actually see it.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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