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Thread: Long Form 3 Question

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    Default Long Form 3 Question

    There is a move that takes place in this form just before Parting Wings that I am curious about.

    We have completed the third isolation for the second time; the inward release and snapping upward punches, and the fourth isolation; the dual thumb peels. We are standing in a pseudo training horse stance, our hands showing the thumb peel at our hips, rather than fists. This is where the question begins.

    We close to the weak side ... drawing our right foot toward our left foot, ending with our feet together. Our hands, palm facing 12 O'clock, at our hips, are drawn up and in, to a palm facing 6 O'clock, left inside right, left hand cupped inside right, elbows tucked in, hands just below chin level.

    I am curious about the hand move at this point in the form.

    Why do we show the 'palm-in-palm' shape?

    We repeat it a second time, as an opposite, when we work through the foot switch.

    I understand that this is a good starting point for Parting Wings, but American Kenpo, as I understand it, works from the 'Point of Origin'. This is not a point of origin.

    Any thoughts?

    Mike

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    Default Re: Long Form 3 Question

    Hmmm. I think I know what you mean.

    I'm fairly certain you do that part differently than I do, but I would say that it starts with the hands crossed because that's the idea way to start parting wings and katas generally start from the ideal.

    Oh, and it looks good. That's another important feature in kata, as with all kenpo........looking good. lol

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Long Form 3 Question

    After the peel off you step straight back to 6 o'clock with the first transition of parting wings, hand still doing the same as you explained. The palm in shape is the point of origin of your outward hand swords to create symmetry, it also pulls your weight into your center for better balance. The foot work of parting wings and glancing spear shows the opposite of repeating devastation and desperate falcons at the end of the form. This should bring you up to the same line you started your form, but off too the right the width of your horse stance.

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    jfarnsworth is offline Parker / Planas Lineage
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by akskarate1 View Post
    This should bring you up to the same line you started your form, but off too the right the width of your horse stance.
    Uh-oh. This will spark the contraversy of the long 3 ending one stance over.

    Well, it looks like there's one more to agree.

    Anyway, good post.

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    Default Re: Long Form 3 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth View Post
    Uh-oh. This will spark the contraversy of the long 3 ending one stance over.

    Well, it looks like there's one more to agree.
    It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing about that point. If you do that one step over, then you end up one step over. If you step up with your feet together, you end up in the same spot.

    So, in other words, I'm right.

    --Amy
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    Talking Re: Long Form 3 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by akskarate1 View Post
    The palm in shape is the point of origin of your outward hand swords to create symmetry, it also pulls your weight into your center for better balance.
    I can understand the second clause in this sentence. And it is an answer. I'm not sure it is a sufficient answer in the realm of American Kenpo.

    e.g. We bring our hands together to center our weight.

    But, I have to dispute the 'palm in shape' is the 'point of origin'. By definition, the point of origin is where your hands are ... not where you put them.

    Leading into the first instance of Parting Wings, our hands are at our hips. THAT is the point of origin. We take our hands from that location and bring them to the centerline, palm in.

    Looking at the second instance of Parting Wings, the 'Point of Origin' is our right arm is extended in a punch to the solar plexus, with the left hand covering beneath that punch (from the frictional push down). As we execute the 'back-to-front switch', we bring our hands from this location to the centerline, palm-in shape.

    We take our hands from where they are, and put them where we start the technique. We don't do that anywhere else in American Kenpo, do we? We use them from where they are.

    I wonder ... are the hands mimicking the footwork?

    Hmm ... ?


    Oh, and of course you are one stance over at the end of the form. How can you not be, with the back-to-front switch in Repeated Devistation?

    EDIT - Just checked my Huk Planas Long Three tape ... he doesn't say way. He does say we "stack 'em" - the 'palm-in-palm' shape. He indicates we should not cross our hands. But, no other help there. I may have to call him - END EDIT
    Last edited by michaeledward; 12-01-2006 at 07:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Long Form 3 Question

    But, I have to dispute the 'palm in shape' is the 'point of origin'. By definition, the point of origin is where your hands are ... not where you put them.

    I guess you could call it the line of travel to obtain a frictional pull with your step back. All the move have many different levels of meaning, all part of the learning process.

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    Talking Re: Long Form 3 Question

    in the form the first side of parting wings shows from a low chamber position ie the hands to the hips,continue the technique to the final strike (outward handsword).right over left palms in shows the opposite hand on top and show a high chamber ie point of origin for parting wings on the left side.
    later
    jay arnold
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    arshaveli is offline
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    Default Re: Long Form 3 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward View Post
    There is a move that takes place in this form just before Parting Wings that I am curious about.

    We have completed the third isolation for the second time; the inward release and snapping upward punches, and the fourth isolation; the dual thumb peels. We are standing in a pseudo training horse stance, our hands showing the thumb peel at our hips, rather than fists. This is where the question begins.

    We close to the weak side ... drawing our right foot toward our left foot, ending with our feet together. Our hands, palm facing 12 O'clock, at our hips, are drawn up and in, to a palm facing 6 O'clock, left inside right, left hand cupped inside right, elbows tucked in, hands just below chin level.

    I am curious about the hand move at this point in the form.

    Why do we show the 'palm-in-palm' shape?

    We repeat it a second time, as an opposite, when we work through the foot switch.

    I understand that this is a good starting point for Parting Wings, but American Kenpo, as I understand it, works from the 'Point of Origin'. This is not a point of origin.

    Any thoughts?

    Mike
    I realize this is dated, but... we stack our hands to show proper "parting" for the technique, as many just bring the hands up from the hips to the opponent's wrists, thus having no real travel in the dual handswords to part the attack. It only works on a non-compliant attacker. By stacking our hands, we reference proper line of travel, as well as maximum travel (any more would cross our hands, which there is a no-no) for that move, which is consistent throughout the forms

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    Default Re: Long Form 3 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by arshaveli View Post
    I realize this is dated, but... we stack our hands to show proper "parting" for the technique, as many just bring the hands up from the hips to the opponent's wrists, thus having no real travel in the dual handswords to part the attack. It only works on a non-compliant attacker. By stacking our hands, we reference proper line of travel, as well as maximum travel (any more would cross our hands, which there is a no-no) for that move, which is consistent throughout the forms

    Huk was up here a week or two back ... and that phrase you use, "maximum travel", well, that got some play in some of the discussions at the school. Not related to this move, but it was discussed in some other strikes.


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    Default Re: Long Form 3 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward View Post
    Huk was up here a week or two back ... and that phrase you use, "maximum travel", well, that got some play in some of the discussions at the school. Not related to this move, but it was discussed in some other strikes.

    Well, like he says to my students when they say I sound like his recording "He better...I beat it into him all these years"

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