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Thread: Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Hubbard View Post
    EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?
    According to Infiinte Insights 5, the 24 technique variation is the original curriculum put forth by SGM Parker. This means there are 24 self defence base techniques per belt (excepting yellow which had 10), followed by extensions.

    Interestingly I asked this same question of Frank Trejo this past weekend at a seminar. His response is that they are all basically the same, the primary difference being in how long it takes to ultimately learn all of the techniques. There were some other insights he had, but this was the gist of it.

    I have noticed on the Eastcoast Kenpo System (Steve Arseneault) they have on average 6 techniques per belt. Is there anyone familiar with this? I know Steve was/is? part of the WKKA under Palanzo. Is he building in the 'missing' techniques after black?

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    The thread that this comment was originally posted in is part of the FAQ area, and not a place for general conversation.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    According to Infiinte Insights 5, the 24 technique variation is the original curriculum put forth by SGM Parker. This means there are 24 self defence base techniques per belt (excepting yellow which had 10), followed by extensions.
    The various number of techniques reflect the points of the Evolution of EPAK. The higher numbers are farther back in time, and the lower numbers are closer to day.

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    Interestingly I asked this same question of Frank Trejo this past weekend at a seminar. His response is that they are all basically the same, the primary difference being in how long it takes to ultimately learn all of the techniques. There were some other insights he had, but this was the gist of it.
    Frank Trejo is a great instructor and uses as far as I still know the 24 technique frame.

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    I have noticed on the Eastcoast Kenpo System (Steve Arseneault) they have on average 6 techniques per belt. Is there anyone familiar with this? I know Steve was/is? part of the WKKA under Palanzo. Is he building in the 'missing' techniques after black?
    Mr. Arseanault offers the customized curticulum and the original 24 tech system. From what I know the shorter version is to get you hooked on the system. Anyone looking to teach has to do the ful;l curriculum
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    The thread that this comment was originally posted in is part of the FAQ area, and not a place for general conversation.
    I didn't realize that - it seemed a question to open up discussion as there was nothing further on it.

    Sorry for the confusion, is there more?

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    I didn't realize that - it seemed a question to open up discussion as there was nothing further on it.

    Sorry for the confusion, is there more?

    More what?
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    The various number of techniques reflect the points of the Evolution of EPAK. The higher numbers are farther back in time, and the lower numbers are closer to day.



    Frank Trejo is a great instructor and uses as far as I still know the 24 technique frame.



    Mr. Arseanault offers the customized curticulum and the original 24 tech system. From what I know the shorter version is to get you hooked on the system. Anyone looking to teach has to do the ful;l curriculum
    You are correct about Mr. Trejo, he is teaching the 24 technique frame. As for Mr. Arseneault, what you say makes sense. His website references the shorter version. Mind you if you look at the WKKA site these days you would have to dig deeper to realize they are offering more than the KSP (Kenpo Self Protection) programme. When I first saw this I didn't know what Palanzo was up to.

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    More what?
    More on the FAQ about the differences between 16/24/36?

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    You are correct about Mr. Trejo, he is teaching the 24 technique frame. As for Mr. Arseneault, what you say makes sense. His website references the shorter version. Mind you if you look at the WKKA site these days you would have to dig deeper to realize they are offering more than the KSP (Kenpo Self Protection) programme. When I first saw this I didn't know what Palanzo was up to.
    Mr. Arseanult email back and forth on a bi-weekly basis, I asked him about this curriculum when he first introduced it. Naturally he would like to see everyone doing the 24 technique system, but it can seem very daunting tot he absolute beginner.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    More on the FAQ about the differences between 16/24/36?

    There is nothing more on this topic in the FAQ, I would prfer to post a major breakdown for the reply but it will have ot wait a little while, while I organize my thoughts and reply.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    Mr. Arseanult email back and forth on a bi-weekly basis, I asked him about this curriculum when he first introduced it. Naturally he would like to see everyone doing the 24 technique system, but it can seem very daunting tot he absolute beginner.
    Amen to that - I think if our beginners knew that they would learn 154 techniques plus extensions plus forms plus sets plus basics...nobody certainly markets all that!

    So what does Mr. Arseneault do with the students who decide they want to know the whole system down the road? What about black belt grading, there must be a difference in the bb the two streams earn? I noticed you are affiliated. Do you offer the two programmes or just the 24 frame?

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    There is nothing more on this topic in the FAQ, I would prfer to post a major breakdown for the reply but it will have ot wait a little while, while I organize my thoughts and reply.
    Certainly don't rush on my behalf.

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    Amen to that - I think if our beginners knew that they would learn 154 techniques plus extensions plus forms plus sets plus basics...nobody certainly markets all that!

    So what does Mr. Arseneault do with the students who decide they want to know the whole system down the road? What about black belt grading, there must be a difference in the bb the two streams earn? I noticed you are affiliated. Do you offer the two programmes or just the 24 frame?
    I only offer the 24 tech system. But I only have a couple private students since moving back from the Great White North. As for the rest Mr. Arsenault will have to post the answer to it. Ask him about it in a post the in ECKS hosted forum.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    I only offer the 24 tech system. But I only have a couple private students since moving back from the Great White North. As for the rest Mr. Arsenault will have to post the answer to it. Ask him about it in a post the in ECKS hosted forum.
    Thanks. BTW, I thought you were still in Canada - how far north were you?

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    Thanks. BTW, I thought you were still in Canada - how far north were you?
    I was in North Bay for 3 yrs. Now I am back in Chatham
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    I was in North Bay for 3 yrs. Now I am back in Chatham
    It must feel downright balmy down this way. Well thanks and have a good southwestern on night!

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    According to Infiinte Insights 5, the 24 technique variation is the original curriculum put forth by SGM Parker.
    The original EP kenpo-Karate curriculum was the 32. Frank is correct. They're all the same with the real differences being how individual teachers teach its component parts.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Belts are just pieces of cloth, nothing more. Mr. Parker started his commercial system with 36 techniques then moved to 24 techniques and then at least per my sources was talking about some variation of a 16 system prior to his untimely death. There is too much concern about how many techniques are learned per belt. The real question is how well is the information learned? Can the student perform spontaneously or is the student robotic and still trapped in the conscious performance of the techniques. I learned 150 techniques for Black but the last 60 techniques I could not perform well outside of the comfort of a technique line. I've seen people fly through multiple techniques and forms quickly but with indeterminant targets and little effective force. The strikes are either a version of the technique "Fluttering Moth" or look powerful but are really pushes not strikes. Teach whatever you want but ultimately what counts is not the belt but the number of hours of effective practice performed.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Here here, i couldn't agree more!

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    I happen to be a student of Mr. Arsenault and yes the information is there. I went through the 24 series and I have to be honest it's a lot of information. For anyone to believe in 4 to 5 yrs. you could possibly remember never mind master it all is crazy. Most martial artists have day jobs and families making it hard to practice, thus the need for the shortened curriculum. You can ask any instructor about how hard it is to teach some of the advanced techniques. Most people can do delayed sword but taming the mace with extension is another animal. On the ECKS site you'll notice the instructor curriculum is the 24 series.

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    Default Re: EPAK: Curriculums: What are 16/24/32 and what are the differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenpogoat View Post
    I happen to be a student of Mr. Arsenault and yes the information is there. I went through the 24 series and I have to be honest it's a lot of information. For anyone to believe in 4 to 5 yrs. you could possibly remember never mind master it all is crazy. Most martial artists have day jobs and families making it hard to practice, thus the need for the shortened curriculum. You can ask any instructor about how hard it is to teach some of the advanced techniques. Most people can do delayed sword but taming the mace with extension is another animal. On the ECKS site you'll notice the instructor curriculum is the 24 series.
    No one ever said it should be easy to get a black belt....that being said I hear what you are saying. I had originally posted the question because I didn't see the 24 technique systemon the site but I could have missed it and Rob did clear that up for me. Since you are a student of Mr. Arseneault maybe you can answer my other question...what kind of bb does he award to those who follow the shortened version? I understand that in order to teach you must have all of the techniques.

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