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Thread: 5 swords

  1. #1
    ackks10 is offline
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    Default 5 swords

    you know everytime i go to someone's kenpo camp or if i go to a kenpo school
    and we work on 5 swords, i see something when some people do this teq,
    the third movement in this is a palm to the side of the face(or jaw) but i see people doing a finger spear to the eyes(since there is no right or wrong in kenpo) and i like both of them.
    well i want to know what some of you use when doing this teq
    " Resolve to be tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,tolerant with the weak and wrong..... Because sometime in your life you will have been all of these"

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    The Kai's Avatar
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    Default Re: 5 swords

    When i was in tracy's kenpo we did the Finger spear (to stay with in the sword mandate), which also included the Ultra Effective Spear to the solar plexius. later on with Mr Parker it was the Palm and uppercutt (Empahasising the flow more).
    Aha nostalgia-for those days when I thought the finger spear to the body was the coolest

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    Default Re: 5 swords

    Quote Originally Posted by lonekimono10
    you know everytime i go to someone's kenpo camp or if i go to a kenpo school
    and we work on 5 swords, i see something when some people do this teq,
    the third movement in this is a palm to the side of the face(or jaw) but i see people doing a finger spear to the eyes(since there is no right or wrong in kenpo) and i like both of them.
    well i want to know what some of you use when doing this teq
    Hi George,

    I teach it as a spear to the eyes but we often practice it with a heel palm to assume some contact.

    I have also seen many Kenpoists teach it as a heel palm, with an immediate spear to the eyes thereafter.

    BTW - did you get my email yesterday about an appropriate time to call you on Sunday?


    Cheers,

    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

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    Default Re: 5 swords

    Hey here is a simple trivia question for everyone....

    Why is the technique called Five Swords, and where are the "5" Swords in the technique...


    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

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    dubljay is offline
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    Default Re: 5 swords

    IT is called 5 Swords becase there are 5 strikes and it was initially taught open handed.

    the 5 swords as they were taught to me:

    1) Rt outward swordhand to the neck
    2) L palmheal to the chin/poke to the eyes (i do the palm heal)
    3) Rt spear hand to the solar plexus (i use a close punch)
    4) L outward swordhand to the neck (also used to get them to bend forward)
    5) Rt Hammering swordhand to the back of the neck (The extension uses a slicing swordhand)
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    pete is offline
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    Default Re: 5 swords

    by using the spear hand, this could be seen as using your left checking hand to lock his right wrist and press forward. if he wrigggles it free, you left hand palm down is pointing directly at his eyes.

    counting the 5 swords is always fun 'cause everybody counts differently~

    i use the uppercut, rather than spearing the solar plex, so my 5th comes after the right handsword to the back of the neck... we continue by clawing the face with the left hand, pulling him back and delivering a 5th and final right outward handsword to the throat from a reverse bow.

    pete

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    dubljay is offline
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    Default Re: 5 swords

    This thread reminds me of a saying my instructor always uses:

    "Every palm heal is a claw and every claw is a palm heal"

    So in that sense I think that the eye poke and the palm heal are really the same strike but with a different emphasis.
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: 5 swords

    In the Ideal Phase (non extension)
    We use a left five-finger thrust (palm down) to the eyes.
    Tailoring the weapon would be changing to a heel palm in our curriculum.
    An uppercut replaced the spear hand (originally the way I learned it).

    Notes on 5 Swords-
    This technique was originally developed where all five counts were executed as handswords. Because of the undeveloped state of the natural weapons of most beginning students, the weapons were altered with the name unchanged, as Five Swords.

    ~Tess

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    ackks10 is offline
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    Default Re: 5 swords

    yes i got your email,any time is ok.
    now what about grafing with 5 swords
    " Resolve to be tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,tolerant with the weak and wrong..... Because sometime in your life you will have been all of these"

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    Wink Re: 5 swords

    Quote Originally Posted by lonekimono10
    yes i got your email,any time is ok.
    now what about grafing with 5 swords
    There's lots, here are some of my favorites:

    If you use handswords to block (as opposed to an inward block), one could go right into Defying the Storm.

    Or if you are doing the standard Five Swords, after the spear hand, you could go into Circling Wing.

    Or if you are doing the standard Five Swords, after the uppercut, if the opponent is bent over and tries to tackle you, graft into Charging Ram (or Broken Ram if the opponent’s arm is around you)


    What are your favorites?

    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

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    Default Five Swords

    I don't think Mr. Parker changed the technnique for better flow. I believe he changed it for other reasons entirely. I remember reading somewhere that he changed the finger thrusts to the solar plexus to an uppercut punch in this technique because (in his later days) he put less emphasis on developing enough strength in his student's fingers to make them effective in this manner.

    Another reason I think he changed it was to increase the size/density of the natural weapon, thus making it easier for a practitioner to strike more effectively (especially if he missed his desired targets slightly). For instance, if the practitioner missed his opponent's stomach with the uppercut punch and instead struck him in the floating ribs the technique may have the same desired effect.

    Here is how I was taught this technique:

    FIVE SWORDS
    (Front - right step-though roundhouse punch)

    1. Standing naturally, have your right foot step forward into a right neutral bow (facing 12 o'clock) while checking the inside of your opponent's right knee with your right knee. Simultaneously execute a right inward block to the inside of your opponent's right forearm, while using your left hand to check high. (The effect of both actions is to expose the width of his body.)

    2. Immediately strike to the right side of your opponent's neck with a right outward handsword. (This action should help to nullify the Height, Width, and Depth Zones of your opponent.)

    3. Pivot into a right forward bow (facing 12 o'clock) as you execute a left five-finger thrust (palm down) to your opponent's eyes while your right hand cocks to your right hip (fist clenched and palm down). (The effect of this poke should snap your oppoent's head back and away from you.)

    4. Having your opponent's head move away from you should cause his midsection to jut forward. Take advantage of this anticipated response by (1) pivoting into a right neutral bow, (2) executing a right uppercut punch to your opponent's stomach as (3) your left hand becomes a COCKING CHECK (guarding horizontally and palm down) near your right bicep. (This action should result in your opponent bending over at the waist.)

    5. With your opponent now bendin over, immediately have your left foot slide counterclockwise (toward 4:30) into a right forward bow (while now facing 10:30), as your left outward handsword strikes to the left side of your opponent's neck. Your right hand acts as a positional check against any potential danger from your opponent's left arm.

    6. Without hesitation and while pivoting into a right neutral bow, have your left hand (during the interim) hook to the left side of, as well as on top of, your opponent's neck, to aid you in pulling his head down if necessary. With th double flow (the circular movements of both of your hands) of your action, execute a right inward handsword to the back of your opponent's neck. At the time your right handsword strikes, your left hand should be checking low.

    7. Immediately (from your left hand checking position) execute a left inward-upward heel palm under your opponent's chin. Instantly convert this strike into an inward five-finger circular claw across your opponent's face as your right hand cocks (palm up) to the left side of your heart. This action should turn your opponent's head toward you.

    8. Instantly pivot counterclockwise into a right reverse bow as you execute a right outward (diagonally upward) handsword to the right side of your opponent's neck.

    9. From you right reverse bow, deliver a right back stiff-leg lifting kick to your opponent's groin. (Drag your left foot toward your right foot if you need to gauge your distance.)

    10. From the point of contact of your kick, execute a right front crossover, an cover out twice toward 4:30.


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    Default Re: 5 swords

    Here another trivia question. Why not just control the distance and get on the outside?

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    Default Re: 5 swords

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger
    Here another trivia question. Why not just control the distance and get on the outside?
    I'd say 'cause it's pretty hard to get to the outside of a roundhouse punch.


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    Default Re: 5 swords

    outter rim.right/left??
    " Resolve to be tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,tolerant with the weak and wrong..... Because sometime in your life you will have been all of these"

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    Default Re: 5 swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Lear
    I'd say 'cause it's pretty hard to get to the outside of a roundhouse punch.

    Thats why I said control the distance then getting on the outside would be easy. Don't you agree? There is a technical answer for this question, I'm not trolling.
    Sean

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    Default Re: 5 swords

    Sean you know that there is no one right answer for this, billy said it with the roundhouse, and so on, but what i would do with this is something called "WHAT IF" and go from there.( is that right?)
    " Resolve to be tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,tolerant with the weak and wrong..... Because sometime in your life you will have been all of these"

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    Default Re: Five Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Lear
    Here is how I was taught this technique:

    FIVE SWORDS
    (Front - right step-though roundhouse punch)

    1. Standing naturally, have your right foot step forward into a right neutral bow (facing 12 o'clock) while checking the inside of your opponent's right knee with your right knee. Simultaneously execute a right inward block to the inside of your opponent's right forearm, while using your left hand to check high. (The effect of both actions is to expose the width of his body.)

    2. Immediately strike to the right side of your opponent's neck with a right outward handsword. (This action should help to nullify the Height, Width, and Depth Zones of your opponent.)

    3. Pivot into a right forward bow (facing 12 o'clock) as you execute a left five-finger thrust (palm down) to your opponent's eyes while your right hand cocks to your right hip (fist clenched and palm down). (The effect of this poke should snap your oppoent's head back and away from you.)

    4. Having your opponent's head move away from you should cause his midsection to jut forward. Take advantage of this anticipated response by (1) pivoting into a right neutral bow, (2) executing a right uppercut punch to your opponent's stomach as (3) your left hand becomes a COCKING CHECK (guarding horizontally and palm down) near your right bicep. (This action should result in your opponent bending over at the waist.)

    5. With your opponent now bendin over, immediately have your left foot slide counterclockwise (toward 4:30) into a right forward bow (while now facing 10:30), as your left outward handsword strikes to the left side of your opponent's neck. Your right hand acts as a positional check against any potential danger from your opponent's left arm.

    6. Without hesitation and while pivoting into a right neutral bow, have your left hand (during the interim) hook to the left side of, as well as on top of, your opponent's neck, to aid you in pulling his head down if necessary. With th double flow (the circular movements of both of your hands) of your action, execute a right inward handsword to the back of your opponent's neck. At the time your right handsword strikes, your left hand should be checking low.

    7. Immediately (from your left hand checking position) execute a left inward-upward heel palm under your opponent's chin. Instantly convert this strike into an inward five-finger circular claw across your opponent's face as your right hand cocks (palm up) to the left side of your heart. This action should turn your opponent's head toward you.

    8. Instantly pivot counterclockwise into a right reverse bow as you execute a right outward (diagonally upward) handsword to the right side of your opponent's neck.

    9. From you right reverse bow, deliver a right back stiff-leg lifting kick to your opponent's groin. (Drag your left foot toward your right foot if you need to gauge your distance.)

    10. From the point of contact of your kick, execute a right front crossover, an cover out twice toward 4:30.

    same here... those are the "5"... except i do a right side kick instead of the stiff-leg at #9. good stuff.

    pete.

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    Default Re: 5 swords

    I love 5 swords! Its a great lesson in rhythmatic timing...I use you to hit you..I use me to hit...then I use you to hit you again..

    plus I love throwing people off at my school by doing it on the opposite side ^____^

    I use the heelpalm/uppercut variation, to answer the poll
    Susan A. Spann

    Something Here Coming Soon

    Member of the Estrogen Mafia and Proud Owner of THIS Thread (FOREVER D:< )



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    Default Re: 5 swords

    Quote Originally Posted by lonekimono10
    Sean you know that there is no one right answer for this, billy said it with the roundhouse, and so on, but what i would do with this is something called "WHAT IF" and go from there.( is that right?)
    NO, but let me make it easier. What might prevent you from controlling the distance and getting on the outside?
    Sean

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    Default Re: 5 swords

    Yes,

    Five Swords it totally Cool,
    however it's done.
    Can I have a "HIGH FIVE"
    if you know what I mean
    What have I learned from this???

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