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Thread: Circling Destruction Question

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    Shodan's Avatar
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    Default Circling Destruction Question

    While working out with a friend from a different line (Amy-she is Tatum line, I am Planas line) on Circling Destruction the other night, we noticed a difference in the first move. I was taught to do an inward/outward parry combo (to the punching arm) continuing into the mid-section shot and she thought an inward block was more effective.

    I was thinking about the purpose of a parry vs. the purpose of a block. Seems to me like a block in this instance would mess up my borrowed force from the person- re-directing their arm (and stopping some of the force) vs. with the parries where I can still use their force against them.

    What were you taught and what do you think about all this? Thanks!!

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    jfarnsworth is offline Parker / Planas Lineage
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan
    What were you taught and what do you think about all this? Thanks!!*
    I would personally not do a block. The block may redirect the opponent on a different line of entry than what you want. Look at what all of your other initial blocks do. I'm in agreement with the double parry. Parries ride action not redirect it.

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    Default Re: Circling Destruction Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan
    While working out with a friend from a different line (Amy-she is Tatum line, I am Planas line) on Circling Destruction the other night, we noticed a difference in the first move. I was taught to do an inward/outward parry combo (to the punching arm) continuing into the mid-section shot and she thought an inward block was more effective.
    ...
    What were you taught and what do you think about all this? Thanks!!
    I, too, do the double parries.

    But, what I did learn about this, is that it is a great suffix technique to Wings of Silk - just leave off those double parries.

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    Default Re: Circling Destruction Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan
    While working out with a friend from a different line (Amy-she is Tatum line, I am Planas line) on Circling Destruction the other night, we noticed a difference in the first move. I was taught to do an inward/outward parry combo (to the punching arm) continuing into the mid-section shot and she thought an inward block was more effective.
    I find either method works well for me, although some of my advanced students prefer the open hand parry.
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    Default Re: Circling Destruction Question

    [quote=Shodan]Seems to me like a block in this instance would mess up my borrowed force from the person- re-directing their arm (and stopping some of the force) vs. with the parries where I can still use their force against them.

    What were you taught and what do you think about all this? quote]

    I know Mr. Palanzo taught us to do the double parries. To me this technique is Reversing Mace gone wrong lol. Before I make my decision I would like Amy to tell us exactly how she does this technique with the block.
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    Default Re: Circling Destruction Question

    we do it with the double cicular parrys, starting form a right neutral bow.. we are tought that the attacker is comming in deep with the step through left straight punch..
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    Default Re: Circling Destruction Question

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxershane
    we do it with the double cicular parrys, starting form a right neutral bow.. we are tought that the attacker is comming in deep with the step through left straight punch..
    We have the same approach in the AKKI. After the right hammerfist, our left checking hand turns into a palm thrust. I'd like see how Amy does this as well. It may be a Tatum thing.

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    Default Re: Circling Destruction Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael151
    We have the same approach in the AKKI. After the right hammerfist, our left checking hand turns into a palm thrust. I'd like see how Amy does this as well. It may be a Tatum thing.
    Not a Tatum thing so much as a Liner thing. It's like Repeating Mace (or reversing mace - the one that is for the left punch).

    The only difference is that instead of the right hand doing a parry, it's just done a little harder as an inward block. It circles around the same with the left parry to the right backknuckle.

    Not that much different -- just emphasizing the first move.

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    Default Re: Circling Destruction Question

    Oh. That makes sense. Thanks Amy!

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    Default Re: Circling Destruction Question

    I learned the technique from Mr. Planas so the parry was the way I got it. Basically the purpose of a block is to keep you from getting hit but there are levels of sophistication in blocking. The hard blocks are the easiest to do, the parries are harder, and the hardest block is to not even be there in the first place. Circling Destruction, like all techniques can be modified as you see fit. Remember, nothing is wrong if you can justify the action taken by the rules of kenpo. If you can't then its wrong.

    Both of you are probably right and you can have a pleasant evening arguing the fine points. Also keep in mind that a lot of these techniques have been modified over the years to reflect more and more sophisticated thinking. Delayed Sword evolved from a technique where you blocked, chopped then kicked and was changed because students were falling away from the opponent as they kicked. Circling Destruction may have been one way and evolved into the other way. Don't get too wrapped up in which it is. Think and justify the action by the rules.

    Use the rules. Don't be used by them.

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    Default Re: Circling Destruction Question

    My take on this technique is that you want to 'slip' the punch. This is the tech that you step up circle and heel-palm the attacker's jaw, right? So executing a block to the outside of the arm (assuming you do it right) would have a big reaction from the attacker - you'd cancel his width and drive him down, I'm not sure there would be any targets for the rest of the technique if you used a block in this way. I don't see how his head would be in range for the heel-palm, and I've always seen this tech done with the parries which bring the attacker closer to you for the subsequent strikes.

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    Default Re: Circling Destruction Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB
    My take on this technique is that you want to 'slip' the punch. This is the tech that you step up circle and heel-palm the attacker's jaw, right? So executing a block to the outside of the arm (assuming you do it right) would have a big reaction from the attacker - you'd cancel his width and drive him down, I'm not sure there would be any targets for the rest of the technique if you used a block in this way. I don't see how his head would be in range for the heel-palm, and I've always seen this tech done with the parries which bring the attacker closer to you for the subsequent strikes.
    Well I was way out with this one, as Doc explains in the concurrent thread over on MT...seems the simple reason why the parry is not desirable is twofold - mainly because it doesn't deal with the potential (and very likely) followup punch because your not cancelling width..

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    Default Re: Circling Destruction Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB
    So executing a block to the outside of the arm (assuming you do it right) would have a big reaction from the attacker - you'd cancel his width and drive him down, I'm not sure there would be any targets for the rest of the technique if you used a block in this way. I don't see how his head would be in range for the heel-palm, and I've always seen this tech done with the parries which bring the attacker closer to you for the subsequent strikes.
    Open hand or closed hand on the first "block" makes absolutely NO difference. I borrow the opponent's forward momentum either way, and all of the shots will hit the same intended targets.

    Question - if someone was trying to take your head off with a step-through left punch as in Circling Destruction, how confident are you that you will block with an open hand parry initially?

    I am just being honest - this thread becomes pointless at the end of the day since either method works fine. Some people may have been taught and prefer the open hand parry, others the block.....great....if you can make it work for you (which you should be able to do with either method)....add Circling Destruction's name as yet another great EPAK technique.
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    Default Re: Circling Destruction Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    Open hand or closed hand on the first "block" makes absolutely NO difference. I borrow the opponent's forward momentum either way, and all of the shots will hit the same intended targets.
    it could be that I'm talking a different execution of block here - in this situation I would circle the entire arm and hit downwards at 45 degrees, and towards the 10.30 direction. This is in contrast to how I would parry the arm, which would be a softer circular motion back towards myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    Question - if someone was trying to take your head off with a step-through left punch as in Circling Destruction, how confident are you that you will block with an open hand parry initially?

    I am just being honest - this thread becomes pointless at the end of the day since either method works fine. Some people may have been taught and prefer the open hand parry, others the block.....great....if you can make it work for you (which you should be able to do with either method)....add Circling Destruction's name as yet another great EPAK technique.
    I'd step off center first of all to get my head out of the way, so my parry would certainly stop the punch from hitting me in this case. Just not as effectively as a block would do though!

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