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Thread: Equation Formula

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    Default Equation Formula

    What elements of the Equation Formula do you find yorself using the most? Which elements do you find you use least?
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    Thumbs up Re: Equation Formula

    Good question!

    I would say "Suffix" and "Insert" are the two I use most often, occasionally adding a "Prefix." I don't use the others very much, but that just may be because of where I am in my training right now.

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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    Since we have so many more members here now I thought this would be a good thread to re-visit.
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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    Let's see, where would "Oh Crap" appear in the equation formula? Probably prefix.

    Actually, I'm incorigable. I like to tweak everything, so I use it all. But, if you were to ask what part I use most effectively ...

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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    For me, regulate, alter, and adjust.
    Just because you do something one way, does not mean that everyone else does it that way, or that it is even the correct way.

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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    Good topic.
    FYI for those that may not have been exposed to it as of yet in their kenpo training. =)
    Equation Formula The Equation Formula for fighting was designed as a formula to allow fighters to build/design logical and pratical fighting techniques. It states that for any base move (ie punch/kick) or group of moves (technique - ie Delayed Sword) one may modify their intention by:
    1. Alter the target area, weapon, or both.
    2. Prefix, or add a move or strike prior to executing an established technique.
    3. Suffix, or add a move or strike at the end of an established technique.
    4. Rearrange the order of a technique. Instead of block-chop-punch change it to block-punch-chop
    5. Insert a move, perhaps simultaneously, such as a check of another weapon.
    6. Delete a move to prevent unwanted injury to yourself, your opponent or to prevent unnecessary time spent engaging and less time leaving!
    7. Adjust the range or angle of the weapon.
    8. Regulate your weapons speed or force (notice the change in the opponent's reactions)
    Though "Suffix", "Prefix", and "Insert" may be used most often (I think "Regulate" is as well or else there would be a lot of injured students out there! LOL) I believe they are all equally important in fostering spontanaeity.

    This gives me an idea. Duh, I don't know why I didn't think of it before. But why not work this principle as a drill. Pick one technique that every one can learn (something basic so the lower ranks can follow it) and work the list.

    First drill the basic technique. Then have the students "alter" an aspect of the technique, then "prefix" the technique, then "suffix", and so on. Of course, as the question indicates, I've worked different aspects of the formula, but never the whole thing at one time..... and right now I couldn't tell you why I haven't! It just hadn't occured to me until right now. LOL.
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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    Good topic.
    FYI for those that may not have been exposed to it as of yet in their kenpo training. =)
    Equation Formula The Equation Formula for fighting was designed as a formula to allow fighters to build/design logical and pratical fighting techniques. It states that for any base move (ie punch/kick) or group of moves (technique - ie Delayed Sword) one may modify their intention by:
    1. Alter the target area, weapon, or both.
    2. Prefix, or add a move or strike prior to executing an established technique.
    3. Suffix, or add a move or strike at the end of an established technique.
    4. Rearrange the order of a technique. Instead of block-chop-punch change it to block-punch-chop
    5. Insert a move, perhaps simultaneously, such as a check of another weapon.
    6. Delete a move to prevent unwanted injury to yourself, your opponent or to prevent unnecessary time spent engaging and less time leaving!
    7. Adjust the range or angle of the weapon.
    8. Regulate your weapons speed or force (notice the change in the opponent's reactions)
    Though "Suffix", "Prefix", and "Insert" may be used most often (I think "Regulate" is as well or else there would be a lot of injured students out there! LOL) I believe they are all equally important in fostering spontanaeity.

    This gives me an idea. Duh, I don't know why I didn't think of it before. But why not work this principle as a drill. Pick one technique that every one can learn (something basic so the lower ranks can follow it) and work the list.

    First drill the basic technique. Then have the students "alter" an aspect of the technique, then "prefix" the technique, then "suffix", and so on. Of course, as the question indicates, I've worked different aspects of the formula, but never the whole thing at one time..... and right now I couldn't tell you why I haven't! It just hadn't occured to me until right now. LOL.
    I have done this drill several times with Delayed Sword, and Five Swords. It is really need to start seeing the light bulbs going off in their heads as they start to get.
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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    I have done this drill several times with Delayed Sword, and Five Swords. It is really need to start seeing the light bulbs going off in their heads as they start to get.
    A properly designed and progressive default technique series has no need for the Equation Formula.
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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    Would you mind elaborating a little on what a properly designed and progressive default technique series is? I don't believe I've ever been exposed to this concept. If so, it would have been called something else possibly.

    I would like to know more about how and why it eliminates the need or use of the equation formula.

    Thanks! =)
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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    A properly designed and progressive default technique series has no need for the Equation Formula.
    For the most part, I agree. However, there can always be circumstances that demand at least one aspect of the forumla. I beleive that as a student, most will never need it, but as an instructor it is a valuable tool.
    Just because you do something one way, does not mean that everyone else does it that way, or that it is even the correct way.

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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    A properly designed and progressive default technique series has no need for the Equation Formula.
    By using a simple technique like Delayed Sword I have found it easy to teach the Equation Forumla to someone from another style who is curious about Kenpo.
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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    So.....would the technique "Delayed Sword" be considered a properly designed and progressive default technique series ?

    Can you elaborate on what makes it properly designed? Is that in reference to the effectiveness of the movements and/or maneuvers that exist within the series?

    I assume progressive refers to the continuation and/or flow of motion. Right? Maybe not....I'm still kind of hazey here....lol.

    What exactly do you mean by default technique? Normally, a default would be something that you perhaps fell back on when your initial intention failed??? Are you saying that for every technique you learn there should be a "back up" technique learned as well? As if applying the 3 phase "what if" concept? How does that differ?

    I'm sorry....call me slow, but I just don't get it. How does this replace the benefits of learning and applying the equation formula? I really would like to understand. =)

    If the equation formula is applied, it can cover all kinds of variables one might encounter on the street. It can prepare the student to smoothly adapt to thier environment and methods of attack. Utilizing the equation formula a technique like "Delayed Sword" could evolve into another technique like "Five Swords" for example.

    What is the difference between learning and applying the concepts behind the equation formula and a properly designed and progressive default technique series?

    I hope I'm not coming off as being obnoxious or anything. I just really am interested in anything new that I have not previously been exposed to and would like know more about it. =)

    Thanks!
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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    So.....would the technique "Delayed Sword" be considered a properly designed and progressive default technique series ?

    Can you elaborate on what makes it properly designed? Is that in reference to the effectiveness of the movements and/or maneuvers that exist within the series?

    I assume progressive refers to the continuation and/or flow of motion. Right? Maybe not....I'm still kind of hazey here....lol.

    What exactly do you mean by default technique? Normally, a default would be something that you perhaps fell back on when your initial intention failed??? Are you saying that for every technique you learn there should be a "back up" technique learned as well? As if applying the 3 phase "what if" concept? How does that differ?

    I'm sorry....call me slow, but I just don't get it. How does this replace the benefits of learning and applying the equation formula? I really would like to understand. =)

    If the equation formula is applied, it can cover all kinds of variables one might encounter on the street. It can prepare the student to smoothly adapt to thier environment and methods of attack. Utilizing the equation formula a technique like "Delayed Sword" could evolve into another technique like "Five Swords" for example.

    What is the difference between learning and applying the concepts behind the equation formula and a properly designed and progressive default technique series?

    I hope I'm not coming off as being obnoxious or anything. I just really am interested in anything new that I have not previously been exposed to and would like know more about it. =)

    Thanks!
    No sir, you're not coming off obnoxious. You are someone asking a bunch of questions about something that contridicts your basic understandings. Seig said it well. This is something students should not be concerned with. It is the instructors responsibility to design a "default technique" (read "ideal" - a bad term) and not over burden students with ideas they not only cannot perform efficiently, but prevents them from learning and concentrating on basic skills and finite execution to enforce those skills. More later when I have more time.
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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    So.....would the technique "Delayed Sword" be considered a properly designed and progressive default technique series ?
    Depends upon who created your version of the technique. In general the answer is no!
    Can you elaborate on what makes it properly designed? Is that in reference to the effectiveness of the movements and/or maneuvers that exist within the series?
    No. Progressve relative to the rest of the sysytem and what it purports to teach in a progressively building manner.
    I assume progressive refers to the continuation and/or flow of motion. Right?
    "Motion flow," "continious motion," etc are buzz words that teach you nothing specific. Conceptual sandwhich devoid of filler meat.
    What exactly do you mean by default technique? Normally, a default would be something that you perhaps fell back on when your initial intention failed???
    A "Default" as I understand and use it is a base technique platform taught in the system that remains as the preferred workable methodology until, or unless canceled or overridden by the user in actual use.
    Are you saying that for every technique you learn there should be a "back up" technique learned as well?
    No. A properly designed default technique Is it's own back up.
    I'm sorry....call me slow, but I just don't get it. How does this replace the benefits of learning and applying the equation formula? I really would like to understand. =)
    The equation formula was created by Mr. Parker to allow students to had significant enough knowledge and skill to design their own "ideal" model to begin their study and to teach.
    If the equation formula is applied, it can cover all kinds of variables one might encounter on the street.
    That is partially true.
    It can prepare the student to smoothly adapt to thier environment and methods of attack. Utilizing the equation formula a technique like "Delayed Sword" could evolve into another technique like "Five Swords" for example.
    The equation formula is not for consideration until you have developed basic skills and have an over view of the entire curriculum, and were interested in expanding your technique, and or teaching.
    What is the difference between learning and applying the concepts behind the equation formula and a properly designed and progressive default technique series?
    A properly designed and progressive default technique series has to be designed by someone extremely knowledgeable with a high degree of expertise learned over many decades of significant study and examination.
    I hope I'm not coming off as being obnoxious or anything. I just really am interested in anything new that I have not previously been exposed to and would like know more about it. =)
    Thanks!
    No sir you are not. It is always difficult when exposed to information and ideas outside of your understanding and experience. Keep an open mind, ask good questions, and demand hard demonstrable answers from your teachers. If you can't, and they won't, move on.

    I apologize for taking so long to get back to you. I simply forgot, and tend to gravitate toward MartialTlak because I get emails asking me to look at questions and I get caight up sir.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: Equation Formula

    I think the value of learning the equation formula is to help students think outside of the box. So many times I've heard ... "well what if you can't step back into a neutral because there's a wall behind you or a car, etc." .. (when commenting on something like Delayed Sword). That is to me a perfect example of when to employ "Rearrange"ment. Instead of stepping back and blocking, put the kick in first to distance his weapon from you.

    I was talking to Tatum about this once and he said that you limit something when you put a name on it. By that I think he was meaning that by naming the techniques and focusing on the curriculum so that it's contained in a box, it makes it difficult for you to think outside of it sometimes. It's important to recognize the vocabulary of motion. We equip ourselves with all this knoweldge and all these structured techniques that show us how to employ our kenpo, but tell me do we really think we're going to do a perfectly executed technique out on the street. Odds are that, if we execute well, we will neutralize the threat in the first two moves - especially if we take into consideration the things that Doc emphasizes. But having said that, when the tunnelvision comes into play and the blood rushes to your head, there is a chance that we don't execute just perfectly. If I missed a strike that would take my attacker out for some reason because he evaded and I didn't check or what have you. I'm going to follow up with something else. I think the Equation Formula helps me to think and teach outside of the box, whether it's to take into consideration environment or bad execution, etc.. I like to train so that I can have some level of confidence that I will be able to defend myself should a situation arise, but honestly.... I'll never be that confident because I'm not out there daily getting attacked and having to defend. The EF gives me a margin for error.... as weak as that may sound. I personally need it and I'm still a babe in the system.
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