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Thread: Rule #1

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    Default Rule #1

    Some say that the first rule of kenpo is to establish a solid base. Others say it is not to get hit. Some say it is a combination of both.

    To you what does Establishing a Solid Base mean? Should it be achieved first and how do you feel about it being the #1 rule?

    Thanks for your posts,
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    If you don't have some sort of a base in which to fight from your blocks, or punches or strikes will not have any good effect. Which is why when it comes to combat stances become priority.

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    I always tell my students that the first most important thing is not to get hit. If you can achieve that without having a perfect base, then that's okay. Ducking, bobbing and weaving can be done without a strong base. In other words, you could get lucky.

    Having a strong base will likely help your block be effective. If you block without a strong base, it will probably not be very effective.

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate
    Some say that the first rule of kenpo is to establish a solid base. Others say it is not to get hit. Some say it is a combination of both.

    To you what does Establishing a Solid Base mean? Should it be achieved first and how do you feel about it being the #1 rule?
    Establishing a solid base is securing a stance that allows you to gain stability and ballance, both of which are important in defense and offense. Defense and offense, as well as establishing a solid base and not getting hit, can be done simultaneously- but the base is the most important.

    Look at it this way; if you avoid the first strike, but are out of ballance and unable to maneuver well due to a poor base, you're probably going to eat the second or third strike or get taken to the ground. Get your base, rule #1 in my opinion.

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    To me the first rule is not to get hit by either "bobbing or weaving." If I must throw blocks or etc. than yes have a stable base/stance would be a very important thing. Without that than nothing that I throw will be effective.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    I believe having a solid base is important to not getting hit!

    Having a solid base doesn't mean you're immobile. IMO, it means you're positioned so that you have good posture, maintain your center and balance, and are positioned in such a way as to effectively execute any maneuver efficiently as possible using proper body mechanics. That includes executing blocks, strikes, or other maneuvers such as bobbing and weaving, feinting, etc....

    I'm not saying you can't get lucky and not get hit without a good base, instead what I'm saying is having one increases the probability that you will avoid getting hit.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    All excellent points. Thanks.

    I feel that a solid base is most important. Without it your defense and offense will crumble like a house built with no foundation.

    IMHO.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    I have to throw my lot in with most of you. I say, if you don't have a good base, the things tat folloe don't exist either. I also agree that it is imprtaant to realise that a solid base isn't just holding still.

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    Just a thought: "How can you have mobility without a strong base? Mobility requires it."
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    Just a thought: "How can you have mobility without a strong base? Mobility requires it."
    Amen to that! I think when people hear the word "solid" they immediately think in terms of density and/or being static. That's not what it means at all; not in this context anyway.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    Here is a question and an answer at the same time. When I first started in Kenpo, I knew nothing of Kenpo and little to nothing of TKD. I took a class here and there when I was younger and showed up just to fight in a TKD school. But when I started in Kenpo I soon started showing up to spar. With not much training other than what I had picked up through the years I was and still am able to hold my own against the people I was sparing. Here is my question you talk about not getting hit and having a strong base. Well to do one would you not need the other? What I mean is that when I would spar I didn’t know the Kenpo stances I just took up more of a TKD point fighting stance. I let myself have free form with my hands but my feet and legs are some what set in a pattern depending on what my opponent is doing. I don’t let myself get locked into a stationary stance as I have to change up to counter what is being used against me. So when you say you need to establish a strong base, are you implying that you need to be in a set stance IE Neutral Bow, Forward Bow or something to that effect to be effective at blocking an attack? I am still new and I hope that in time I will be more affective with my Kenpo but seems to me that I will be better able to explode into the use of a technique from any position as I get better
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    Default Re: Rule #1

    2004hemi, all stances are transitional. You move and adapt as the fight changes, and you should be the one constantly changing it. A stable base does not imply a stationary base. To the contrary, you have to have a stable base to move effectively.

    As for your being able to spar effectively without an understanding of the basics, a couple of points. First, I'm guessing you were doing no or light contact. You can get away with a lotlike that that you can't get away with when they turn up the heat. Add ground option and you are in real doo-doo.

    Second, it's like learning to improve your penmanship. When you start to try to improve you go through a period where it gets really bad. This happens with sparing also, and may be what your opponents were going through. But there will come a time when, if you don't improve your own technique, they'll eat your lunch. Especially if your school requires increasing contact as you advance.

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    In the prioritization of basics, stances always come first.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Smile Re: Rule #1

    I believe that establishing your base IS the first rule. Without being firmly rooted to terra firma, punches, kicks, blocks, parries, or strikes are futile gestures. Generating power with torque, back up mass, or gravitational marriage begins with a solid base from which to commence movement.

    Consider the astronauts working in space or divers working under water. A simple action like turning a screwdrive or wrenching a bolt is extremely difficult because in such an environment. If the diver or astronaut is not anchored to anything when applying torque to a screw driver or wrent, it's the astronaut or diver that spins instead of the screw or bolt. Thus, they make special provisions to anchor themselves in order to perform a variety of tasks.

    Similar principles apply in this case. To generate maximum power, you need to incorporate the maximum number of body muscles to accelerate your weapons and maintain that acceleration as you impact the target. As I think about it, maximizing power starts with a solid base.

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    Rule #1 "If at all possible, don't put yourself in a situation where you have to find out."
    Just because you do something one way, does not mean that everyone else does it that way, or that it is even the correct way.

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    Quote Originally Posted by Seig
    Rule #1 "If at all possible, don't put yourself in a situation where you have to find out."
    I'd say you need a good base to accomplish this as well.
    *walking in ballance, apearing confident, competant, in control
    *alert- try this from a slump or stumbling posture
    *choosing the environment is establishing a base

    Is there any part of avoidance that can not be equated to getting a good base?

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    What does establishing a base really mean?

    Does it mean ensuring oneself is in a stance taught in Kenpo? Or does it mean something else?

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    Quote Originally Posted by lady_kaur
    What does establishing a base really mean?

    Does it mean ensuring oneself is in a stance taught in Kenpo? Or does it mean something else?
    In my opinion, this has been taken out of context and completely misunderstood. My take in my conversations with him yielded a different understanding, and he never suggested my perspectve was incorrect. Consider that when Ed Parker suggested you 'establish a solid base.' he was telling you to develop your basic skills in the art, as opposed to saying 'make sure you have a solid stance?'
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    In my opinion, this has been taken out of context and completely misunderstood. My take in my conversations with him yielded a different understanding, and he never suggested my perspectve was incorrect. Consider that when Ed Parker suggested you 'establish a solid base.' he was telling you to develop your basic skills in the art, as opposed to saying 'make sure you have a solid stance?'
    Establishing solid basic skills makes the most sense to me sir. The first move may not be establishing a solid stance. It may be moving off an attacker's centerline or even putting distance between oneself and the threat.

    At the same time, I can see where "establishing the base" makes sense. It seems like there may be many cases where setting up a textbook stance is not the very first thing one may do, but it should be the first thing that one should do when one has the opportunity to strike.

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    Default Re: Rule #1

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    In my opinion, this has been taken out of context and completely misunderstood. My take in my conversations with him yielded a different understanding, and he never suggested my perspectve was incorrect. Consider that when Ed Parker suggested you 'establish a solid base.' he was telling you to develop your basic skills in the art, as opposed to saying 'make sure you have a solid stance?'
    Although I never had the honor of meeting Master Parker I was going to bring this up.

    In my past I have always been taught that the base or foundation is key to application of marital arts. It was never defined as a solid stance, low center of gravity, ballance, base knowlage or even fundimental body mechanics.. but rather the sum of all.

    That said, a solid base, bobbing and weaving, both have their time and place but must be done with propper balance wether you are a traditional karate practitioner or you study drunken boxing. Proper mechnics can only really be applied when you are secure in your balance, so I could argue that ballance allows the propper application of fundimental knowladge... thoughts?
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