Basics - Parries

[michaeledward]

These are the parries listed as 'Basics' in the studio where I study. Submitted for discussion.

Inward Parry
Outward Parry
Downward Parry
Inside Downward Parry
Upward Parry
Double Circular Parry In to In
Double Circular Parry In to Out
Vertical Upward Heelpalm
Vertical Downward Heelpalm

[Dr. Dave in da house]

Hooking parries have always been a stylistic fave of mine. Yet, I have not seen them around much. Anybody still use them?

[dubljay]

Hooking parries have always been a stylistic fave of mine. Yet, I have not seen them around much. Anybody still use them?

Hooking parry? Is this a parry with a frictional pull on the arm or leg of your opponent or something differnt (Kind of like Hooking Wings in purple belt)?

[KenpoTess]

Hooking parry - waiters hand - Think Calming the storm, utilizing a left upward hooking parry.

[dubljay]

Ah thats right, thanks Tess. All my terminology is decaying along with my mind.

[mjhiya]

Hooking parry - waiters hand - Think Calming the storm, utilizing a left upward hooking parry.

Yes Dr. Dave we use them here like Tess, and we sometimes refer to a hooking parry as a V check as in Entwined Lance - checking a step through knife attack to your throat.

[jjohnson]

Hooking parries have always been a stylistic fave of mine. Yet, I have not seen them around much. Anybody still use them?

I use them a lot when I do an outward parry (if we are indeed talking about the waiters hand). It helps to control the opponents arm nicely.

[mjhiya]

I think of a parry as more of a move to deflect than block or strike. Of all the parry combinations on the list I have difficulty seeing this one: Can you please describe an application for a double circular parry in to out. Would this be used against a punch? Or is this like the first move in Circling Fans?

[dubljay]

I would like to see that as well.

[Chronuss]

I think Circling Fans would be an application of in-to-in, against the two punches you do two inward parries...for an in-to-out...one would think one would use both hands, one doing an inward, one doing an outward...an application that jumped to mind was Reversing Mace. when the left punch is launched you execute a right inward parry then immediately a left outward parry and it remains as a check and the right inward rebounds into the outward back knuckle to the ribs.

[michaeledward]

Double Circular In to Out ...


I am thinking ... Dance of Darkness ...
a) Left Downward block
b) Right inward parry
c) Right inward parry
d) Left outward parry

I think steps c) and d) would qualify as a Double Circular Parry In to Out.

I was told we do this second right inward parry because we never go past a joint without covering it .. so this move allows us to move our body past his weapons and closer to his body.

I'll check with my instructor again, to see if I can offer a more clear explanation.

[jjohnson]

I think Circling Fans would be an application of in-to-in, against the two punches you do two inward parries...for an in-to-out...one would think one would use both hands, one doing an inward, one doing an outward...an application that jumped to mind was Reversing Mace. when the left punch is launched you execute a right inward parry then immediately a left outward parry and it remains as a check and the right inward rebounds into the outward back knuckle to the ribs.

Although I don't know EPAK so I can't comment on the techniques you would know. From the description you gave that is exactly what I thought. Our technique that seems to match your description is Gathering the Dragon.

[Dr. Dave in da house]

Hooking parries allow you to fulfill the function of a parry -- to redirect force by riding it, & guiding it away, as opposed to a block, which meets force with force -- while containing the opponents attacknig weapon in a state of check. The classic double parry is inward-outward. The outward is converted to an outward hooking parry by turning the palm up, with your "wristwatch" facnig your opponent. It can be converted into an outward extended hooking parry by rotating the arm further, and turning the palm down, effectively mimicking the shape of the snake, and hooking over the top of the opponents attacking arm. Meant to be a subtle grab only (if he tries to pull free, he should be able to), it buys a fraction of a second more of time in which your attacker is open to reply.

Others:

Upward Extended Hooking Parry
Outside Downward Hooking Parry
Inward Hooking Parry

I haven't seen it in years, but we used to do things like, "Short Form One, Double Hooking Parries". Minor & Major moves were regular parries feeding hooking parries. Fun ways to ensnare attackers limbs for only a moment, but in kenpo, that moment is all you need.

Regards,

Dave

[Rob Broad]

This thread was started almost a year ago, and could defitiely be useful to many people on the site.

[execkenpo]

I'm glad you explained the double parry,,,I use it all the time but call it 'trapping hands' . This is one of my favorite parries. I also like to turn my inward parries into pinning checks.

Mark

Hooking parries allow you to fulfill the function of a parry -- to redirect force by riding it, & guiding it away, as opposed to a block, which meets force with force -- while containing the opponents attacknig weapon in a state of check. The classic double parry is inward-outward. The outward is converted to an outward hooking parry by turning the palm up, with your "wristwatch" facnig your opponent. It can be converted into an outward extended hooking parry by rotating the arm further, and turning the palm down, effectively mimicking the shape of the snake, and hooking over the top of the opponents attacking arm. Meant to be a subtle grab only (if he tries to pull free, he should be able to), it buys a fraction of a second more of time in which your attacker is open to reply.

Others:

Upward Extended Hooking Parry
Outside Downward Hooking Parry
Inward Hooking Parry

I haven't seen it in years, but we used to do things like, "Short Form One, Double Hooking Parries". Minor & Major moves were regular parries feeding hooking parries. Fun ways to ensnare attackers limbs for only a moment, but in kenpo, that moment is all you need.

Regards,

Dave

[marcel32us]

I think Circling Fans would be an application of in-to-in, against the two punches you do two inward parries...for an in-to-out...one would think one would use both hands, one doing an inward, one doing an outward...an application that jumped to mind was Reversing Mace. when the left punch is launched you execute a right inward parry then immediately a left outward parry and it remains as a check and the right inward rebounds into the outward back knuckle to the ribs.

If the two parries are used against two seperate attacks, I'd rather speak of two single paries instead of one double. I can't think of another example of in-to-in however.

The hooking parries that are mentioned in other posts I don't see that much as parries, but more as checks. They are ussualy applied when the attacking arm has already stopped, while a parry is typically used against a moving weapon (you cannot change the direction of a weapon that isn't moving).

In-to-out examples:
Checking the storm
Backbreaker
Reversing Maces

Out-to-in:
Leap of Death ??

Nice topic, thanks for re-posting

Marcel

[execkenpo]

How about using double in while doing glancing salute instead of a pin with the right?

I can't think of another example of in-to-in however.

Nice topic, thanks for re-posting

Marcel

[marcel32us]

How about using double in while doing glancing salute instead of a pin with the right?

I see what you mean.....but ....

If a parry is a defensive move that deflects the weapon so that the original target will not be hit, than I'm afraid the right hand in this tech will never be a parry, because it guides (controls) the weapon to it's intended target, instead of deflecting it. If you would do otherwise, the move would look more like Flashing Mace than Glancing Salute. The left hand would then be an offensive one, and therefore not a parry anymore.

I guess the reason we don't find that many real in-to-in parries is that this means that both parries work against each other. You obviously want to parry an incoming weapon to the right, left, up or down, but never to the left as well as to the right....

Marcel

[michaeledward]

Just reading through this again ... this thought came to mind ...

Form 4 begins with a 'Double Circular In to Out Parry'.
Form 5 begins with a 'Double Circular Out to In Parry'.

Maybe?


I can understand the argument that using the a 'Double Circular In to In Parry' on two separate weapons could be referred to as two inward parries, in a row. My exception to that thought is that my movement is independent of the attack. I am performing a basic maneuver ... does it need to be against aggressor? A push-drag foot maneuver is a basic that does not require an aggressor. If there is not an opponent against me, does that make that movement not a basic?

[marcel32us]

Just reading through this again ... this thought came to mind ...

Form 4 begins with a 'Double Circular In to Out Parry'.
Form 5 begins with a 'Double Circular Out to In Parry'.

Maybe?


I can understand the argument that using the a 'Double Circular In to In Parry' on two separate weapons could be referred to as two inward parries, in a row. My exception to that thought is that my movement is independent of the attack. I am performing a basic maneuver ... does it need to be against aggressor? A push-drag foot maneuver is a basic that does not require an aggressor. If there is not an opponent against me, does that make that movement not a basic?

Interesting point, does the snapping of a twig in the woods make any sound if there's nobody there to hear it??

My viewpoint is that a manouver is a basic that does nothing but move my body from one place to another. A push drag without an oponent still does that. What determines a block or a parry however is that they stop or redirect attacks. Therefore if there is no attack, the basic in question is not that basic. It's just a move representing that basic.

Question 1: could you learn a perfect push-drag without ever working with an oponent.
(My) answer: yes you could, no problem (a bit boring though).

Question 2: could you learn a perfect parry or block without ever working with an oponent.
(My) answer: No, never.

I most certainly agree on the move in form 5 though, in Destructive Fans there's an out-to-in combination to a right strepthrough punch from the flank.

Thanks,
Marcel