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Thread: Has anyone Else ready this article?

  1. #1
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    Default Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Below is a article i read in regards to Mr. Parker,

    I do not necessarily agree with everything written, but i will say that we all play the role of villain in someone else's story...

    What is really interesting about this article is the message board debate that followed it... Mostly slander by a gentleman named Robert Libby.

    has anyone ever heard of this guy? he seemed to have a low opining of Mr. Parker.





    Iíve heard many tales of many martial arts that were, shall we say, less than honorable, but the one I heard about Chinese Kenpo Karate, however, is one of the worst I have heard. Unfortunately, I donít know how true it is, but with the information I present in this article perhaps some one could let me know if they have any light to shed on the truth or falsity of it.
    Ed Parker is credited with being the creator of modern Kenpo, putting on the biggest tournament in the world for years, the Internationals, teaching movie stars, including Elvis, and all manner of other deeds. His prowess is quite well known, and his students are legion. Unfortunately, when he first began teaching, while he seemed to demonstrate a talent as a teacher, he was only a brown belt.

    In those days he was actually teaching the Heian forms from Shotokan karate, this as illustrated by one of his earliest books. Running out of material to teach his students, he went back to Hawaii and was told to go take a hike, the founder of the system apparently had lost interest in him as a student. Iím not sure, exactly, what the fall out was, but it was perhaps that Ed was teaching without permission.
    Ed then ran into a fellow in San Francisco named Jimmy Woo, whose named might have been Jimmy Wu, who knew tremendous and authentic gung fu, but who spoke almost no English. Ed brought Jimmy to Los Angeles, where they lived together, and where Jimmy devised the Kenpo forms, the techniques, and so on. Ed took these forms and techniques and began teaching them as his own.
    To complicate matters further, Ed asked Jimmy to write a book with him on what they were doing, and Jimmy spent his days writing kenpo, teaching Ed and some of his students, all while still being deficient in the English language. One day Jimmy saw a rough translation/draft of the book that Ed was planning on turning over to a publisher, and he was surprised to see that his name was not on the cover, or anywhere in the book. This was surprising, because even though Ed was half the team, Jimmy was doing all the work.
    Why not my name on book, is what he was supposed to have said. Ed said he would explain, but he had an errand to run, could they take a drive, and Ed would explain on the way. Jimmy got into the car, and Ed drove into Hollywood, but Ed didnít say a word about the book the whole time. On Hollywood Blvd, there is an Armenian pastry shop there now, Ed let Jimmy out of the car, and drove off.
    Jimmy had one single quarter in his pocket, the clothes on his back, and nothing else. With that last quarter he called one of Edís students, who he had been teaching. In his broken English he explained what Ed had done, that he didnít know where he was, or why it had all happened.
    He had been teaching, writing, and then, he had been betrayed. Now, is this story true, or is it a pack of lies? If anybody has definite information on this story, I sure would like to know.

  2. #2
    Ma_student is offline
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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatkenpo View Post
    Below is a article i read in regards to Mr. Parker,

    I do not necessarily agree with everything written, but i will say that we all play the role of villain in someone else's story...

    What is really interesting about this article is the message board debate that followed it... Mostly slander by a gentleman named Robert Libby.

    has anyone ever heard of this guy? he seemed to have a low opining of Mr. Parker.





    I’ve heard many tales of many martial arts that were, shall we say, less than honorable, but the one I heard about Chinese Kenpo Karate, however, is one of the worst I have heard. Unfortunately, I don’t know how true it is, but with the information I present in this article perhaps some one could let me know if they have any light to shed on the truth or falsity of it.
    Ed Parker is credited with being the creator of modern Kenpo, putting on the biggest tournament in the world for years, the Internationals, teaching movie stars, including Elvis, and all manner of other deeds. His prowess is quite well known, and his students are legion. Unfortunately, when he first began teaching, while he seemed to demonstrate a talent as a teacher, he was only a brown belt.

    In those days he was actually teaching the Heian forms from Shotokan karate, this as illustrated by one of his earliest books. Running out of material to teach his students, he went back to Hawaii and was told to go take a hike, the founder of the system apparently had lost interest in him as a student. I’m not sure, exactly, what the fall out was, but it was perhaps that Ed was teaching without permission.
    Ed then ran into a fellow in San Francisco named Jimmy Woo, whose named might have been Jimmy Wu, who knew tremendous and authentic gung fu, but who spoke almost no English. Ed brought Jimmy to Los Angeles, where they lived together, and where Jimmy devised the Kenpo forms, the techniques, and so on. Ed took these forms and techniques and began teaching them as his own.
    To complicate matters further, Ed asked Jimmy to write a book with him on what they were doing, and Jimmy spent his days writing kenpo, teaching Ed and some of his students, all while still being deficient in the English language. One day Jimmy saw a rough translation/draft of the book that Ed was planning on turning over to a publisher, and he was surprised to see that his name was not on the cover, or anywhere in the book. This was surprising, because even though Ed was half the team, Jimmy was doing all the work.
    Why not my name on book, is what he was supposed to have said. Ed said he would explain, but he had an errand to run, could they take a drive, and Ed would explain on the way. Jimmy got into the car, and Ed drove into Hollywood, but Ed didn’t say a word about the book the whole time. On Hollywood Blvd, there is an Armenian pastry shop there now, Ed let Jimmy out of the car, and drove off.
    Jimmy had one single quarter in his pocket, the clothes on his back, and nothing else. With that last quarter he called one of Ed’s students, who he had been teaching. In his broken English he explained what Ed had done, that he didn’t know where he was, or why it had all happened.
    He had been teaching, writing, and then, he had been betrayed. Now, is this story true, or is it a pack of lies? If anybody has definite information on this story, I sure would like to know.
    Who knows.


    it very easily could be true. The ed Parker die hards who worship the man as a God will be disgusted by this and completely deny it and the ones who dislike kenpo will say it's true.

    personally I don't know and honestly I don't care. If it's true then it's true. The past is the past and already done. Both men are dead so there's no way of finding out. I will continue my kenpo and other training regardless and not focus on folk tales and rumours. I'm no Parker worshiper so I'm not going to say the man was perfect because he certainly wasn't as no human is perfect and he did unethical things like promoting elvis to seventh or eight degree which obviously was totally rubbish but it is what it is

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma_student View Post
    Who knows.


    it very easily could be true. The ed Parker die hards who worship the man as a God will be disgusted by this and completely deny it and the ones who dislike kenpo will say it's true.

    personally I don't know and honestly I don't care. If it's true then it's true. The past is the past and already done. Both men are dead so there's no way of finding out. I will continue my kenpo and other training regardless and not focus on folk tales and rumours. I'm no Parker worshiper so I'm not going to say the man was perfect because he certainly wasn't as no human is perfect and he did unethical things like promoting elvis to seventh or eight degree which obviously was totally rubbish but it is what it is

    I am far from a PArker Die hard.. but .. personally ... the story sounds a little Buggs Bunny to me....

    and I know all about bunnies...
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma_student View Post
    Who knows.


    it very easily could be true. The ed Parker die hards who worship the man as a God will be disgusted by this and completely deny it and the ones who dislike kenpo will say it's true.

    personally I don't know and honestly I don't care. If it's true then it's true. The past is the past and already done. Both men are dead so there's no way of finding out. I will continue my kenpo and other training regardless and not focus on folk tales and rumours. I'm no Parker worshiper so I'm not going to say the man was perfect because he certainly wasn't as no human is perfect and he did unethical things like promoting elvis to seventh or eight degree which obviously was totally rubbish but it is what it is
    The real point of the post was about the thousands upon thousands of fighting going back and fourth between the Parker haters and the parker Diehards... quite childish but quite entertaining none the less.

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny View Post
    I am far from a PArker Die hard.. but .. personally ... the story sounds a little Buggs Bunny to me....

    and I know all about bunnies...
    again its all probably perspective.

    I will repeat... we are all the villain of someone else's story.

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    I don't know if the story is true and I am not sure why it would matter much. Mr. Parker is renowned not for his exemplary moral conduct, but for his achievements in the martial arts world. If you expect that world to be inhabited by saints, you are in for a shock once you learn the truth.

    To me, the more interesting statement in the quoted text concerns Mr. Parker "teaching the Heian forms from Shotokan karate, this as illustrated by one of his earliest books." Now I know Mr. Parker's early books. I also know Shotokan karate.

    While it is true that forms can be interpreted in a variety of ways, it is hard to make 1:1 comparisons between what is in the Heian kata and Mr. Parker's early self-defence techniques as shown in his 1960 book Kenpo Karate: The Law of the Fist and the Empty Hand. Even though there is no doubt that the Kenpo he learned on Hawaii had some of its roots in Okinawan shurite style karate, as taugt by Mutsu Mizuho and Choki Motobu.

    So the abovementioned statement somehow intrigues me. In the unlikely case anybody here has further insights to share, I invite you to do so.
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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatkenpo View Post
    again its all probably perspective.

    I will repeat... we are all the villain of someone else's story.
    Is it terrible that I am the villain in my own story? Well.. A villain... welll an Anti-Hero... yea.. thats more accurate... Sora.. post Corporate dystopian Bio engineered Anti-Hero... with floppy ears...
    I
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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    This thread was similar to one 5 years ago. Here was my reply then.

    I just did a little bit of "google-fu" on that title.

    The guy who wrote it is named AlCase. He sells a product called "matrixing", in which he claims that if you follow his easy to use system, you will be a master of "Style X" in no time at all. He has done similar things for other styles of karate as well. He has written other blogs and has bad mouthed SGM Parker in almost all of them.

    https://kenponow.wordpress.com/

    Is one of those sites. If you read through this, there is a little bit of historical fact, alot of political slanting and just plain wrong information.

    For example, he claims that Ed Parker's early art was just "karate" and the techniques he shows in his early book are from the pinan/heian katas. We know historically, that what he showed in his first book was very close to what Prof. Chow had taught him. SGM Parker did not have exposure/influence to the chinese arts in this first book as he did later on in his development.

    Another example, is that he cites and views the Tracy's history of things as fact. He repeats the history that Mitose learned his art in Japan and brought it back to Hawaii, when most historical records show that he probably learned some Okinawan Karate (his first book makes reference to him being related to Motobu and uses the Motobu family crest). It wasn't until much later that Mitose started with the story of inheriting a secret family art.

    Also, he makes the claim that the Tracy system is the "real system" of kenpo and repeats that what they taught was exactly what Prof. Chow taught. That Ed Parker "destroyed kenpo" by blending it with kung fu influences. BUT, if you buy his books, he will tell you the REAL secrets of all those techniques to make you a master like Mitose/Chow.
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    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    This thread was similar to one 5 years ago. Here was my reply then.

    I just did a little bit of "google-fu" on that title.

    The guy who wrote it is named AlCase. He sells a product called "matrixing", in which he claims that if you follow his easy to use system, you will be a master of "Style X" in no time at all. He has done similar things for other styles of karate as well. He has written other blogs and has bad mouthed SGM Parker in almost all of them.

    https://kenponow.wordpress.com/

    Is one of those sites. If you read through this, there is a little bit of historical fact, alot of political slanting and just plain wrong information.

    For example, he claims that Ed Parker's early art was just "karate" and the techniques he shows in his early book are from the pinan/heian katas. We know historically, that what he showed in his first book was very close to what Prof. Chow had taught him. SGM Parker did not have exposure/influence to the chinese arts in this first book as he did later on in his development.

    Another example, is that he cites and views the Tracy's history of things as fact. He repeats the history that Mitose learned his art in Japan and brought it back to Hawaii, when most historical records show that he probably learned some Okinawan Karate (his first book makes reference to him being related to Motobu and uses the Motobu family crest). It wasn't until much later that Mitose started with the story of inheriting a secret family art.

    Also, he makes the claim that the Tracy system is the "real system" of kenpo and repeats that what they taught was exactly what Prof. Chow taught. That Ed Parker "destroyed kenpo" by blending it with kung fu influences. BUT, if you buy his books, he will tell you the REAL secrets of all those techniques to make you a master like Mitose/Chow.

    Ohhh a book that has all the secrets in it to be a master?!??? where can I get it??!? I'lll put it with my other book by Count Dante....

    Bunbun
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    At this point, does any of it really matter? Does your Kenpo work for you? Are you satisfied with what your instructor is teaching you? Has Kenpo served you sufficently? If you can answer yes to any of these questions, then who cares. Let people have their opinions, rumors and politics. Because in the end, it's just words and the only reality is if what you are studying fulfills your personal needs.

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo_Paladin View Post
    At this point, does any of it really matter? Does your Kenpo work for you? Are you satisfied with what your instructor is teaching you? Has Kenpo served you sufficently? If you can answer yes to any of these questions, then who cares. Let people have their opinions, rumors and politics. Because in the end, it's just words and the only reality is if what you are studying fulfills your personal needs.
    agreed. All I care about is my training. I don't care if ed Parker did that crap or not. Ed parkers dead and probably so is the other guy. I'm not going to get myself all worked up over 2 dead guys I never met all I can do is focus on my own training and being the best person I can be and not caring about rumours and gossip from decades ago

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Al Case’s writings in regards to the Parker/Woo history are mostly nonsense and BS. It is a waste of time and those that have chosen to repeat it or reference it as an actual historical source are dead wrong.

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Let me clarify. I read this entire article once and it was claptrap to the point of being almost cartoonish. I have since seen it repeated by those that claim to know a lot. It reflects on their gullibility and need to have something to say about that which they know nothing. The damage is that they do a great disservice to Ed Parker and Mr. Woo and themselves for repeating this nonsense. Remember this... they were not caricatures but real people who at one time were friends.

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny View Post
    Ohhh a book that has all the secrets in it to be a master?!??? where can I get it??!? I'lll put it with my other book by Count Dante....

    Bunbun
    In the Epic words Of Jay and silent Bob, "Don't you ever have a ill conceived word about Count Dante"

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Please disregard the Article itself but google the article and read the thread that is below it... i posted mostly for people to get a good laugh on the thousands upon thousands of people fighting with each other.

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatkenpo View Post
    Please disregard the Article itself but google the article and read the thread that is below it... i posted mostly for people to get a good laugh on the thousands upon thousands of people fighting with each other.
    The fact that this is even a topic of argument speaks volumes to the tiny minded populace that engage in such debates... I bet they all have Count Dante tattoos....

    Bun bun
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    -JTHM

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    Default Re: Has anyone Else ready this article?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny View Post
    The fact that this is even a topic of argument speaks volumes to the tiny minded populace that engage in such debates... I bet they all have Count Dante tattoos....

    Bun bun
    Yo Bunny, I say we study with his ultimate disciple Asida Kim... True Ninja Shadow Warrior.

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