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Thread: 18 vs 24 technique system

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    Default 18 vs 24 technique system

    I studied Ed Parker’s system and believed it had 24 techniques per belt.
    Recently I came across an 18 technique version.

    Only major difference I see is the number of extensions.
    24 tech system = 10 + (24*10) = 250
    vs 18 tech system = 10 + (18*12) = 226

    Anyone know how this came about?

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    Default Re: 18 vs 24 technique system

    Quote Originally Posted by Potterjohn View Post
    I studied Ed Parker’s system and believed it had 24 techniques per belt.
    Recently I came across an 18 technique version.

    Only major difference I see is the number of extensions.
    24 tech system = 10 + (24*10) = 250
    vs 18 tech system = 10 + (18*12) = 226

    Anyone know how this came about?
    Interesting, I am very curious to here where you found this 18 tech system? Not that nobody would or could do this I thought I was the only one doing that since 95. Like I said, I don't believe I am the only one capable, just curious as to where you saw this? or who it is that is doing it?
    "The problem is not whether or not you like bad kenpo, the problem is recognizing whether or not your kenpo is bad!"
    "Being a master by your own proclamation doesn't make you a master, it only makes you an arrogant"

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    Default Re: 18 vs 24 technique system

    I believe it’s being taught in Dublin, Ireland. I came across a guy while on vacation who trains there.
    Where did you come across the 18 tech system first?
    Do you teach or learn all the extensions up to Back Breaker or Twist of Fate?

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    Default Re: 18 vs 24 technique system

    I didn't "come across" it, I went through the system and re-arranged it to the 18 tech's that I then taught from then (94-95) to now. (that was during a time that most others had already done this in one form or another) All of my extensions are my own, I incorporate other things and honestly don't care for the extensions. (I know some die hards will attack me for that, too bad!)
    So when you say in Dublin, I think it's facinating!!! would love to see how they went about doing that. Thanks
    "The problem is not whether or not you like bad kenpo, the problem is recognizing whether or not your kenpo is bad!"
    "Being a master by your own proclamation doesn't make you a master, it only makes you an arrogant"

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    Default Re: 18 vs 24 technique system

    Gotcha, from what I can gather this 18 tech system came from John Conway Sr but I’m not sure. That’s why I’m trying to find out where it came from. The techniques are stretched out over two extra belts but as from my earlier post some were dropped.
    Where in the world are you based?
    Did you come in contact with John Conway Sr?
    What gave you the idea for 18 techniques?

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    Default Re: 18 vs 24 technique system

    Well isn't that interesting, I wish I would have known that I would have spoken with his son last weekend at the KKHOF. Any who I had never met SR, and came to the 18 tech system as the result many conclusions and much research. My teacher had a more progressive pattern set up as in; yellow 10 tech's, orange 15, purple 16, blue 20, and so on. I did not particularly care for the arrangement since, after some research and greater understanding of the web of knowledge and SGM's purpose etc... I wanted to bring the curriculum that I was/am teaching more in line with the intended formulation of the system. I did not however want to teach 24 and extensions. I don't believe that more is more, nor do I believe that less is more.... Others had done 12 and progressive, and yet others had done 16 and progressive. I wanted to have an equal and balanced number of tech's for each belt after yellow, and extensions after black if at all. Okay, far more than you needed to be sure... in doing all of this I followed to the best of my ability the web and the order the tech's should be taught in according to SGM Parkers 24 tech system and original intent. Hope this answers the question. I would be happy to answer more in depth off line.
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    Default Re: 18 vs 24 technique system

    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    I didn't "come across" it, I went through the system and re-arranged it to the 18 tech's that I then taught from then (94-95) to now. (that was during a time that most others had already done this in one form or another) All of my extensions are my own, I incorporate other things and honestly don't care for the extensions. (I know some die hards will attack me for that, too bad!)
    So when you say in Dublin, I think it's facinating!!! would love to see how they went about doing that. Thanks
    When the diehards come at you about the extensions, tell them the bulk of them were created by Jim Mitchell, and originally they weren't "extensions" at all. They were the result of long Chinese Kenpo Techniques from the original 32 System. When Mr. Parker commercialized the system further, he cut off the ends of the techniques and created "extensions" to flesh out the system to be learned later, then at brown belt beginning as "Blue/Green."

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    Default Re: 18 vs 24 technique system

    Mr. Parker never created an 18 Technique System. He did, however, create a 24 set of charts with his eye on eventually turning it into a 16 chart system for commercial friendly purposes. The 16 were a topic of discussion among some but never came to fruition under Mr. Parker's own hand. Some did do it on they're own. At any rate, the techniques are not gospel, but simply ideas to be explored to get to your techniques of your own design. Students were supposed to create their own "ideal" techniques after exploring the ideas Mr. Parker "suggested." There were zero mandates in the system.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: 18 vs 24 technique system

    The number of techniques in the system you choose to teach is totally up to you and in no way invalidates the lessons you teach, UNLESS your principles don't work. The entirety of the Ed Parker Kenpo Karate System was a suggested method and order of teaching its many ideas, with techniques suggested for study. If you can do the same or better with a curriculum modified by you and it effectively teaches your students, Mr. Parker would be the first one in line to congratulate you on doing a good job.

    Keep in mind there are people who follow the Ed Parker Kenpo Karate Curriculum guidelines to the letter - and produce worthless students who couldn't fight their way out of Girl Scout/Brownie meeting. In turn, your people are kicking a$$. Who do you think Ed Parker would say is doing the better job? At the end of the day, what we do is supposed to be a results-driven vehicle. EPKK is a suggested method to get there. But in my 62 years of the art, I've seen people take an inferior art and make it effective, and others take an intelligent well-defined curriculum and turn it into crap that doesn't work.

    There are purists (who aren't any good) who will tell you that you are not teaching the Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate System. My answer to that is, "So?" If your students are learning the principles and skills they need to be effective, then you're doing your job. If necessary, drop the Ed Parker part and call it whatever you want. Who cares, as long as it's good and works?

    Look at Kajukenbo whose roots are the same as "Kenpo Karate" in Hawaii. They are extremely diverse in what and how they teach, and what they choose to emphasize. They are truly the original eclectic art, but rather than fight over who is right, they embrace all of their many aspects and let the validity, (or not) speak for itself.

    What people don't get is that EPKK is NOT and has never been a style of "Karate," and never has been like other arts. Many want to have it both ways. They want the freedom and flexibility to "tailor," and change things to their heart's desire, but want the rigidity of a traditional style to affirm their ranks and titles. EPKK is a SYSTEMatic approach to training that suggests material and methods you should include in your process. All that matter is the results, and if you're successful you're doing "Kenpo." YOUR KENPO. Many have learned Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate System, but what they do with it becomes THEIR STYLE - for better or worse - but don't blame the system or the style, blame the execution. 32, 24, 18, 16 whatever.

    I've seen guys who couldn't perform Short Two get promoted to 3rd Black on a test after a guy tried to knife him a week before and he took the guy out. Mr. Parker didn't say, "Well you don't know Short Two, so I'm not going to promote you. EPKK was JKD before JKD. The difference is EPKK was more and better defined in its SUGGESTIONS of its CONCEPTUAL training methods. JKD says, "take what you like and make it work for you." At least EPKK gave you a systematic approach and suggestions of what to do in the process.

    "Show me what you got and I'll tell you if it's any good." - Ed Parker Sr.

    My sentiments exactly. We may go around about methodologies of teaching, body mechanics, etc. but I'll never question any of that if what you do works. If it works, what's to argue about? Imagine that.
    Last edited by Doc; 1 Week Ago at 02:14 AM.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

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    Default Re: 18 vs 24 technique system

    ^^ Sir, very well said.

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