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Thread: Lineages

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    Default Lineages

    The WKKA is ran by Joe Palanzo and its board, and all answer to Mr. Palanzo, but with in the WKKA there are many good instructors who lineage do you fall under.

    Palanzo, Your Instructor(s), You.

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    Default Re: Lineages

    I am one of Mr. Palanzo's students and teachers, so I fall under him.

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    Default Re: Lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    The WKKA is ran by Joe Palanzo and its board, and all answer to Mr. Palanzo, but with in the WKKA there are many good instructors who lineage do you fall under.

    Palanzo, Your Instructor(s), You.
    Where do you fall in the WKKA lineage Rob? You told me at one point in time you were promoted in thier org who promoted you if you don't mind me asking?
    www.hunterskarate.com

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    Default Re: Lineages

    I was under Steve Stewart who at one time was the International Director for the WKKA until he was removed. In mid 2002 to early 2003 there was a disclaimer on the WKKA website stating that all the rank earned by Steve Stewart were fraudulent. I recently got to meet with Mr. Steve Arsenault at event in February and he has convinced me to join the WKKA again directly under him. This means starting at the bottom again and working through the system, which to me is great, since we all can gain from learning something again from a different person' perspective.

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    Default Re: Lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    I was under Steve Stewart who at one time was the International Director for the WKKA until he was removed. In mid 2002 to early 2003 there was a disclaimer on the WKKA website stating that all the rank earned by Steve Stewart were fraudulent. I recently got to meet with Mr. Steve Arsenault at event in February and he has convinced me to join the WKKA again directly under him. This means starting at the bottom again and working through the system, which to me is great, since we all can gain from learning something again from a different person' perspective.
    That is not really what I was informed of, a phone call to Steve Stewart and his wife stated that you showed up with a black belt and they never promoted you. Who promoted you to black before thier studio then? Also it was said that you were removed from thier school for vebal bashing of the instructor before the "invalidation" of rank was even announced. if you could clear this up for me I would greatly appreciate it.
    www.hunterskarate.com

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    Default Re: Lineages

    Brian if you really want a detailed account of my lineage you can pm directly.

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    CaptShady Guest

    Default Re: Lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    Brian if you really want a detailed account of my lineage you can pm directly.

    LOL!!!!!!

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    Default Re: Lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    Brian if you really want a detailed account of my lineage you can pm directly.
    I know the details....just be careful what you state or request from others as far as lineage I don't think I need to say anything else.
    www.hunterskarate.com

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    Default Re: Lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter
    I know the details....just be careful what you state or request from others as far as lineage I don't think I need to say anything else.
    No, you really do not.
    Seig
    Ops Admin
    Just because you do something one way, does not mean that everyone else does it that way, or that it is even the correct way.

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    CaptShady Guest

    Default Re: Lineages

    Maybe there should be a rule not allowing lineage questions? "All false claims allowed", perhaps?

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    Default Re: Lineages

    Politics are such a touchy thing. Kenpo orphans were an issue even while Mr. Parker was with us; became an even bigger issue after he passed; and continues to be an issue in bigger scale with organizational politics.

    I remember a guy from an organization (not kenpo, but under a well-known MA celeb) who had his rank/certificate yanked for drug use allegations. He had an entire downline of black belts -- many tournament competitors and champs -- who had their "legitimacy" with the organization & style pulled right along with the guy near the top. "How insane", I thought, that they could no longer wear their black belts. Did they all at once know less? Were their accomplishments in competition no longer valid? Should they return their Black Belt division trophies back to tournament sponsors from decades before, since their blacks are no longer honored by the organization that granted them?

    So...kenpo black belt granted to an individual by an organization. That Association now defunct or splintered. Does the guy all at once no longer know Five Swords? Has his version of Form 4 lost all validity held prior to the dissolution of the organization? If this is the strategy, then following this line of logic...all non IKKA kenpo black belts, ACTIVELY PAYING DUES TO THE ORGANIZATION WHICH SANCTIONED THIER RANK (the IKKA), are worthless. And since the IKKA is silent, and not actively sanctioning promotions, then pretty much all certs, even those of the Seniors, by Parker, are not worth the paper they are printed on.

    I learned from some pedigreed guys. Got some pedigreed papers. Had some fallouts. Trained with some rejects (who were, incidentally, really good kenpoists). Got my rank & certs from them in their small association, and watched the passing of years kill off the key players, and the association disband. Should I burn my belt and sign up as a white belt under some McDojo location now? The American Society of Kenpo Karate (ASKK), certifying achievements in good standnig in the fighting art of Universal Chinese Kenpo-Jujutsu is gone. 2 of the three guys I trained with are dead, and the remaining one is crazy. So, does that mean, all at once, I can't twist a wrist and pop a guy in the mouth like I could before time brought change?

    I'm attempting to return to training with some pedigreed guys, limited by my work schedule. Should I walk in there like a trojan horse, and pretend I know nothing about kenpo? I'm open to learning new material, submitting myself to their leadership & experienced guidance, and developing as a martial artist along the way, and will continue to cherish new learnings as I go. But the scars and arthritis I've picked up along the way are real. So is the damage I've done to others, and the skills of the people I've trained. And whether my lineage is one that is freely acknowledged, or kept secret; back yard or business; big org, or just some guys who will back me up in saying I've learned what they have to teach me, my skills are not lessened just because I walk through the doors of a guy who does not like or acknowledge me or the people I've trained with.

    Doc had a quote I liked: Something about "all the validation & authority I need is between my ears and above my shoes."

    Rob: Everything I've seen you represent has been represented well. I may not have had buy-in with everything you've presented, but I've seen nothing to suggest you carry yourself with anything less than integrity around your knowledge. If another man questions it, turn your back on them, and do your own thing. Granted, there has been a rash of this in kenpo leading to a lot of self-promotional red showing up on belts, but that's where the honor and integrity piece comes in. If you "learned and earned" some accomplishment X, I, for one, will gladly support you in ignoring the pot-stirrers who seek to diminish or slander your commitment.

    Best Regards,

    Dave
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptShady
    Maybe there should be a rule not allowing lineage questions? "All false claims allowed", perhaps?
    Well Kirk, you see, rules about blatant disrespect apply here. This is not Kenponet.
    Just because you do something one way, does not mean that everyone else does it that way, or that it is even the correct way.

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    CaptShady Guest

    Default Re: Lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by Seig
    Well Kirk, you see, rules about blatant disrespect apply here. This is not Kenponet.
    Please show me where the blatant disrespect is?

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    Default Re: Lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    I was under Steve Stewart who at one time was the International Director for the WKKA until he was removed. In mid 2002 to early 2003 there was a disclaimer on the WKKA website stating that all the rank earned by Steve Stewart were fraudulent. I recently got to meet with Mr. Steve Arsenault at event in February and he has convinced me to join the WKKA again directly under him. This means starting at the bottom again and working through the system, which to me is great, since we all can gain from learning something again from a different person' perspective.
    Didn't know you were under Steve Stewart. How was your training with him? We hardly see or talk to each other anymore but I have known him close to 20 years.

    Steve Arsenault is a great guy and a class act.

    Have you always been with the WKKA?

    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

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    Default Re: Lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter
    That is not really what I was informed of, a phone call to Steve Stewart and his wife stated that you showed up with a black belt and they never promoted you. Who promoted you to black before thier studio then? Also it was said that you were removed from thier school for vebal bashing of the instructor before the "invalidation" of rank was even announced. if you could clear this up for me I would greatly appreciate it.
    Why do you care? These types of questions are personal and not appropriate for a public forum.

    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

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    Default Re: Lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    Why do you care? These types of questions are personal and not appropriate for a public forum.

    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
    You know....I was gonna let this go. I am trying to be polite about the matter. The reason I care is A: A person offered me and a couple others "Distance training" based on a few un truths. B: This person consistantly operates as a legit martial artist avoiding the truth and consequences of the things they have done. C: I considered this person a friend and hearing about the lies and bogus information after the fact I WAS betrayed.

    So there is a few reasons for you as to why I care.

    I have not publically aired these untruths and I am trying to avoid having to do so. If you guys are so adimant about the issue I can post the details into what was researched and was was found about fake rank and fraud. Although I do not think it will do any good for any party involved. Anybody can be a 5th black on the internet I guess. If you want to push the issue and support frauds then so be it. That in itself speaks enough for some of your ability to maintain the martial way supporting and putting those on a pedistol who have elevated themselves with no honor.
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    - From the Lone Ranger's Creed




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    Default Re: Lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter
    You know....I was gonna let this go. I am trying to be polite about the matter. The reason I care is A: A person offered me and a couple others "Distance training" based on a few un truths. B: This person consistantly operates as a legit martial artist avoiding the truth and consequences of the things they have done. C: I considered this person a friend and hearing about the lies and bogus information after the fact I WAS betrayed.

    So there is a few reasons for you as to why I care.
    Bro,

    Hang in there. The issue now is that everyone else with questionable rank will chime in about how it's not important. The issue is that now we have a fair number of people that were either promoted cross rank (i.e. never did Kenpo and retained a high rank or did a crappy kenpo system and still retained high rank) or organization jumped, let's call them "puddle jumpers", who switched from organization to organziation receiving rank all along the way. The bottom line is that it is all about money and ego, two things that will never go away. These same people are also continually setting up things to legitimize themselves (organizations, new systems, books, forums, etc....).

    Anyway....the fight is somewhat pointless. Just make note of it and make sure your friends are informed....

    jb

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    Default Re: Lineages

    My rank isn't questionnable Jason if that was what you were implying.

    Rob Broad is a nice guy, and I was simply defending him from public attacks.

    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

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    Default Re: Lineages

    Mr. Bugg, Hunter, and Kirk, I address you in this order because; Mr. Bugg as a fellow black belt you deserve a measure of respect and I wil show that to you. You are well versed in forums. This forum is not tolerant of attacks on anyone. The lineage fora were set up so that people of different lineage could go there to talk about the way things were done in that lineage free from attack or input from those of other lineage. Hunter, you try and be reasonable usually, take this for what it is worth, take your fight with members offline. I have tried to keep the warnings unofficial.<Hint> Kirk, You publicly stated you don't do kenpo, remember? Attacking anyone, regardless of rank is disrespect. Attacking someone of higher rank is blatant disrespect. In this case, that would be me; get the picture? (For those of you wondering, I am referring to my admin status, not my Kenpo status.)

    Seig
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    Default Re: Lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by jbkenpo
    Bro,

    Hang in there. The issue now is that everyone else with questionable rank will chime in about how it's not important. The issue is that now we have a fair number of people that were either promoted cross rank (i.e. never did Kenpo and retained a high rank or did a crappy kenpo system and still retained high rank) or organization jumped, let's call them "puddle jumpers", who switched from organization to organziation receiving rank all along the way. The bottom line is that it is all about money and ego, two things that will never go away. These same people are also continually setting up things to legitimize themselves (organizations, new systems, books, forums, etc....).

    Anyway....the fight is somewhat pointless. Just make note of it and make sure your friends are informed....

    jb
    MIS-ATTRIBUTION OF MEANING:

    Some buncha scientists conditioned a flea to jump when they rang a bell. They rang the bell, and the flea jumped. Next, they pulled a leg off the flea. They rang the bell, and still the flea jumped. They progressed in this study until the flea had only one leg left. They rang the bell, and still the flea jumped. So they pulled off his very last leg. They rang the bell, and the flea did not jump. The conclusion of this scientific investigation? Fleas ears are in their legs. The flea did not jump when the scientists rang the bell, because he simply could not hear it.

    The danger of deciding for all what the motivations are that drive people to do what they do, is that you are more likely to be incorrect, than not.

    Regards,

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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