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Thread: Crossing Talons Question

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    Default Crossing Talons Question

    I can't believe I'm opening up a new thread on this technique.

    On the overhead elbow to the spine...

    I see alot of my peers coming up out of their horse or neutral bow, straightening their legs and sometimes coming up on their toes, all for the sake of marriage of gravity.
    I feel like this personally jeopardizes my base. I tested this out on a few people and when I came up out of the stance they were easily able to grab my legs and send me backwards, but with my knees bent and deep into my stance they weren't able to. Not before I dropped in the overhead elbow.

    I personally try to achieve greater marriage of gravity by deepening my stance and using travel in my overhead motion as I drop for this.

    What do you all think? Think I'm smoking something? Perhaps if you secure the break on the arm its a moot point. Alright... let the feast begin. Chomp chomp.
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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    I know a lot of people in the Huk Planas lineage use a kneel stance for marriage of gravity.

    I much prefer a neutral bow as well.
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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    making me think about this stuff....

    jsut did it in the air.. I don't come up but I do sink a little deeper in my stance on teh elbow
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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    I'm thinking about the couple of movements before the elbow ... the heelpalm, claw, twist the head while tracking my arm down their back ---- keeping them down .... once they are down, keep them down.

    When people first learn this technique, we often see the heelpalm, claw, twist the head in an upward direction ...standing the attacker back up ... which prevents the elbow, doesn't it?

    A couple of times through the technique showing them how to ...hold ... the ... attacker ... down ... with ... their ... forearm ... soon prevents them from coming up in their stance.

    If keeping the attacker down doesn't get this message through, they are probably still standing up the attacker which usually means there is a left hook in it for them too .... don'tcha think?

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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    We teach to maintain the knee check.
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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    You definitely wouldn't want to opponent to stand up. That's why I don't think I would claw straight up. I do it more at an angle with more anchoring of the elbow.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    I also incorporate the claw with the anchoring of the elbow. This could of course snap their neck right there. End of story.
    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    You definitely wouldn't want to opponent to stand up. That's why I don't think I would claw straight up. I do it more at an angle with more anchoring of the elbow.

    --Amy
    -Camey

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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    I'm one of those Planas folks someone mentioned above!! Yep- we turn and drop into a left close kneel on the elbow strike in question here. Leaves a direct path for the following right knee strike.

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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    As long as there is no releve between stances, I don't see a problem with that. Keeping your weight down is a good thing.
    -Camey

    "You mean, you'll put down your rock and I'll put down my sword, and we'll try and kill each other like civilized people? "

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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    Camey, I'm with you on this one. Comeing up in your stance destroys your base, giving the opponent options and actually weakening the downward elbow. MOG is achieved by settling into your stance, not lobbing yourself at the other guy. Also, I was taught like most of you, that when you claw his face you anchor your forearm to his back, checking his height. As you claw and your wrist rotates, so does your arm, and your elbow is driven into his back to enhance your control. His back is also arched, and again with the knuckle rake, so that elbow strike drops onto a structure with no more give, if done quickly enough. That means immediately droping and striking.

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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    If you deliver a fast hard elbow strike to the side of the (temple) head,I dont picture my opponent rising up, maybe crumpling to the ground.
    I had this Technique done to me by a 2 degree black belt at Yannik's Last camp with Mr Polanzo and when he settled in his stance with my other arm twisted at his hip there was no way to rise up.
    Just another Lifelong student Walking the Endless journey of Kenpo.(and Loving it)

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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    I have seen people check their temple with the left hand and drop to their knees. You still have a percussive impact strike with the elbow, but the surface concentration is not there as the arm absorbs some of the impact. Just keep elbowing if this happens. They have little recourse in the defensive posture if you are on target with sufficient impact to prevent a grapple or roll out.

    -Michael
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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Billings
    I have seen people check their temple with the left hand and drop to their knees. You still have a percussive impact strike with the elbow, but the surface concentration is not there as the arm absorbs some of the impact. Just keep elbowing if this happens. They have little recourse in the defensive posture if you are on target with sufficient impact to prevent a grapple or roll out.

    -Michael
    Do you mean the opponent check's their temple and drops to their knees?

    Just trying to visualize.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    Do you mean the opponent check's their temple and drops to their knees?

    Just trying to visualize.

    --Amy
    Yes Amy, the left hand checks and they attempt the roll. Of course this is if you have been fairly gentle with them and they are a training partner, not an attacker.

    -MB
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    Default Re: Crossing Talons Question

    When I was first taught the inward overhead elbow in a horse, we were encouraged to really emphasize the movements. After a while I think it was just natural to not rise up and to keep a low and even stance or even to drop lower to emphasize the marriage of gravity, while keeping the forearm check.

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