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Thread: Old vs. New

  1. #1
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    Default Old vs. New

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    In all fairness the art was meant to change and evolve...but one should not forsake the basics or compromise principles in the process. IMHO =)
    Very true, no disrespect to anybody but lets compare the old black belts (Kelly, Palanzo, ect.) to the ones in the present.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    I would be willing to say people like Martin Wheeler and Zach Whitson stack up just as well as any of the seniors out there.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    Ok let me re-phrase. Are the newer generation better or worse? Explain?
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    I really couldn't say. I have no basis for comparison. I've seen footage, but have never personally worked with most of the Seniors or any "up and comers" per se.

    It's interesting that you posted this because I was actually wondering "who" would be considered to carry on the "flame" once they're gone?

    Are you suggesting that the art is degrading as it is passed down?
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler

    Are you suggesting that the art is degrading as it is passed down?
    No way. I think we are only getting better for the most part.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate
    No way. I think we are only getting better for the most part.
    Cool. That's definately the way I'd hope we'd be going. =)
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    I think it's human nature to look back to the good ol' days and think that things were better 'back then'.

    On other other hand, we're a society of 'new is better'

    So probably, as we expand our knowledge of kenpo and improve our methods of teaching, we do get better.

    Hard to say.

    To me...it's all good.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    It's pretty tough to do a comparison. Remember that the martial arts "attitude" was quite different back then than it is now. People no longer settle differences by showing up at the other persons dojo and going at it. I've heard some pretty cool stories about it though.

    I think there are some extremely good martial artists right now. Even though the only comparisons I can make are what I see on old video clips v. actual movement, I would put our school master (6th degree) against any of the old timers. But, his teacher IS one of the old timers. There are others I've seen do their stuff and would also put them at the top of the game. I think that if the training were of consistent quality, then there would be plenty of martial artists that are as good, if not better, than our forebearers. Let's equate this to running a mile. Remember when it was said that nobody could break a four minute mile? Once the first person did it, 18 more did it in the next year. If you're a competitive runner, you almost have to be able to break that barrier these days.

    As for martial arts, how do you think the masters of today would stand up against the masters of 2,000 years ago?

    The seniors are great martial artists but I think there are some today that are just as good, and possibly better.

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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca
    It's pretty tough to do a comparison. Remember that the martial arts "attitude" was quite different back then than it is now. People no longer settle differences by showing up at the other persons dojo and going at it. I've heard some pretty cool stories about it though.

    I think there are some extremely good martial artists right now. Even though the only comparisons I can make are what I see on old video clips v. actual movement, I would put our school master (6th degree) against any of the old timers. But, his teacher IS one of the old timers. There are others I've seen do their stuff and would also put them at the top of the game. I think that if the training were of consistent quality, then there would be plenty of martial artists that are as good, if not better, than our forebearers. Let's equate this to running a mile. Remember when it was said that nobody could break a four minute mile? Once the first person did it, 18 more did it in the next year. If you're a competitive runner, you almost have to be able to break that barrier these days.

    As for martial arts, how do you think the masters of today would stand up against the masters of 2,000 years ago?

    The seniors are great martial artists but I think there are some today that are just as good, and possibly better.

    Very ture. I believe that things have changed so much since 2,000 years ago. So I would say that seniors now would be better. We are lucky that Kenpo is an evolutionized art. If you would ask me I think it needs to be evoltionized one more time to deal with this generation of attackers and not the ones from the 60's and 70's.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate
    If you would ask me I think it needs to be evoltionized one more time to deal with this generation of attackers and not the ones from the 60's and 70's.
    Any chance it's already ALL in there and we just haven't discovered it yet? But because we haven't been taught it, we assume it needs improvement?

    For example, when I was at Larry Tatum's east coast camp last fall, I learned how many of our techniques are actually anti-grappling techniques against common attacks we see, for example, in the UFC. There is tons of grappling contained in American Kenpo; you just need to be shown where to look.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate
    Very ture. I believe that things have changed so much since 2,000 years ago. So I would say that seniors now would be better. We are lucky that Kenpo is an evolutionized art. If you would ask me I think it needs to be evoltionized one more time to deal with this generation of attackers and not the ones from the 60's and 70's.
    Has the punch evolved, or the kick or headlock in the last century? The answer is no. The only thing that has changed is the mentality of the attackers.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    For example, when I was at Larry Tatum's east coast camp last fall, I learned how many of our techniques are actually anti-grappling techniques against common attacks we see, for example, in the UFC. There is tons of grappling contained in American Kenpo; you just need to be shown where to look.
    This is why I wanted the technical section so we can point out cool stuff like that. I think that if you know something cool in a technique, share it. It might be old news to some people, but chances are that at least one person will learn something new.

    I'm going to post a few things Mr. Tatum said about Triggered salute in that section. Chances are, someone hasn't heard it.

    If you know some techniques that are anti-grappling techniques, lay it out for us, then we can go to our students and act wise.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    Any chance it's already ALL in there and we just haven't discovered it yet? But because we haven't been taught it, we assume it needs improvement?

    For example, when I was at Larry Tatum's east coast camp last fall, I learned how many of our techniques are actually anti-grappling techniques against common attacks we see, for example, in the UFC. There is tons of grappling contained in American Kenpo; you just need to be shown where to look.
    What a great thought.

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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate
    Very ture. I believe that things have changed so much since 2,000 years ago. So I would say that seniors now would be better. We are lucky that Kenpo is an evolutionized art. If you would ask me I think it needs to be evoltionized one more time to deal with this generation of attackers and not the ones from the 60's and 70's.
    EXACTLY!
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Old vs. New

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    Any chance it's already ALL in there and we just haven't discovered it yet? But because we haven't been taught it, we assume it needs improvement?

    For example, when I was at Larry Tatum's east coast camp last fall, I learned how many of our techniques are actually anti-grappling techniques against common attacks we see, for example, in the UFC. There is tons of grappling contained in American Kenpo; you just need to be shown where to look.
    EXACTLY!

    The principles laid out by SGM Parker were always there. He just re-applied them to fit the environment of the day and brought others to light that were previously overlooked.

    IMHO
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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