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Thread: Technique question

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    Default Technique question

    Here I go again starting trouble...

    Ok... question.. first the technique name escapes me so I will describe it.

    attack in high rear bear hug arms free..

    Strike to the back on the attackers hand, roll the palm out allowing you to grab the hand in the start of a wrist lock (kodagaishi..sp?) drop the elbow as you step up the circle and then step back into a left neutral bow apply pressure to the wrist... this should drop your opponent to a three point position with their wrist locked. Kick to the face and step drag forward planting their wrist down by your waist keeping it controlled with your left hand and execute a rising back fist to their face.

    My question.... why would you give up a solid wrist lock for a strike as comparatively weak as a rising back fist to the face that you have already kicked? Also why would you step drag forward and place the core of your body within grappling range of your opponent?



    Would it not be more effective to rotate the locked arm at the shoulder using an close kneel to snap the locked arm.. or you could use an open kneel at the shoulder blade if you want to be nice and not break him... kick him in the face again... knife edge your foot at the edge of his neck and jaw planting his face on the ground.. etc etc etc...




    thoughts?

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    Default Re: Technique question

    Spiraling Twig. I just remembered.

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    Default Re: Technique question

    This is the introduction of the stiff arm back knuckle in a technique. Personally I like the idea of the strikes, rather than continuing with the locks especially if he has friends with him.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    Here I go again starting trouble...

    Ok... question.. first the technique name escapes me so I will describe it.

    attack in high rear bear hug arms free..

    Strike to the back on the attackers hand, roll the palm out allowing you to grab the hand in the start of a wrist lock (kodagaishi..sp?) drop the elbow as you step up the circle and then step back into a left neutral bow apply pressure to the wrist... this should drop your opponent to a three point position with their wrist locked. Kick to the face and step drag forward planting their wrist down by your waist keeping it controlled with your left hand and execute a rising back fist to their face.

    My question.... why would you give up a solid wrist lock for a strike as comparatively weak as a rising back fist to the face that you have already kicked? Also why would you step drag forward and place the core of your body within grappling range of your opponent?



    Would it not be more effective to rotate the locked arm at the shoulder using an close kneel to snap the locked arm.. or you could use an open kneel at the shoulder blade if you want to be nice and not break him... kick him in the face again... knife edge your foot at the edge of his neck and jaw planting his face on the ground.. etc etc etc...




    thoughts?
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Technique question

    Hmm, sounds like a variation of Bear Hug Free "A". We end the technique with a snap kick to the head while maintaining the wrist lock.

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    Default Re: Technique question

    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca
    Hmm, sounds like a variation of Bear Hug Free "A". We end the technique with a snap kick to the head while maintaining the wrist lock.
    they are very similar
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Technique question

    thing about locks is you either have to lock you opponent through his spine or lock it to the ground. a wrist lock may hurt like hell, but in the position of your attacker in spiraling wrist it is difficult to control his spine, so he has easy options to get out from it.

    taking him to the ground is possible by continuing to turn his hand clockwise, but then you have to deal with him rolling out of it.

    so this tech teaches to kick him and smack him and get out of dodge.

    for keeping the lock, i like the extension to Gift in Return which can be applied here. there is a point, just before the end, where you've got him on the ground and simultaneously controling his spine.

    pete

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    Default Re: Technique question

    This makes sense. You want to kick the guy in case he can do some roll or something and come back up.

    A swift kick in the face and rising backknuckle should slow him down a bit.

    Hopefully.

    Then, if he staggers back and takes a step of two forward, you can move into the extension.

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    Default Re: Technique question

    In Spiraling Twig the kick is to the solar plexus and then the rising back knuckle to the face. Not both to the face.

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    Default Re: Technique question

    Whoops. My bad. Not thinking when I'm writing.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Technique question

    Quote Originally Posted by pete
    thing about locks is you either have to lock you opponent through his spine or lock it to the ground. a wrist lock may hurt like hell, but in the position of your attacker in spiraling wrist it is difficult to control his spine, so he has easy options to get out from it.

    taking him to the ground is possible by continuing to turn his hand clockwise, but then you have to deal with him rolling out of it.

    so this tech teaches to kick him and smack him and get out of dodge.

    for keeping the lock, i like the extension to Gift in Return which can be applied here. there is a point, just before the end, where you've got him on the ground and simultaneously controling his spine.

    pete
    The wrist lock, if applied properly, would keep the attacker compromised long enough for the kick (or two) to the head. Personally, once I have control, I don't like the idea of letting him out of my control unless he's done.

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    Default Re: Technique question

    In this instance, the lock is meant as a method of control positioning your opponent for the follow ups. Kenpo is kind of like chess. We're always 2-3 moves or more ahead of our opponents. This requires set up maneuver after set up maneuver.

    In terms of self-defense, especially these days with the liklihood of facing multiple opponents, you don't want to stay to tied to one person for too long. Do what you gotta do and move on! I'm sure you have other things you'd rather be doing. LOL.

    IMHO =)
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    Default Re: Technique question

    Than be in that situation in the first place? Yeah.

    If my hold has him in control, I rather finish him. Multiple attackers are a different scenario.

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    Default Re: Technique question

    I was taught that once the wrist lock was on you would rotate it further clockwise followed by a palm heel strike to the hand/wrist causing a possible spiral fracture along the bones of the arm try puttin the lock on and then feel the pain as the wrist is rotated further and then pushed forwards ouch!!!!

    Also fist kick is done to the solar plexus the way I do it and lifting back knucke to the head and plant back not forwards.

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    Default Re: Technique question

    exellent points thank you... and I did not consider the multible attackers...

    then again with multible attackers I would be more likely to break the grasp step out into a left neutral bo delivering a right bakfist to the temple and a swift side kick to the top of their knee then on to the next attacker. Quick .. effective.. nasty

    of course being me.. I would also likely appologize to all of them afterwards.


    Kick to the solar plexus you say? hummm interesting.. I was definatly taught to the face... I thought the rising back knuckle was a bit redundant.

    As for having controle of their spine.. with the wrist lock you could easily keep rolling it and drop your knee to their shoulder planting them firmly on the pavement while you tell them that you are "terribly sorry for the pain... but it really is in your best interest."


    I guess I just inherantly dislike giving up a solid lock... but.. then again.. Kenpo really is more of a striking art than a grappiling one...

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    Default Re: Technique question

    Quote Originally Posted by pete
    thing about locks is you either have to lock you opponent through his spine or lock it to the ground. a wrist lock may hurt like hell, but in the position of your attacker in spiraling wrist it is difficult to control his spine, so he has easy options to get out from it.

    pete
    The insertion of a thumb lock after the elbow break and wrist lock will end the fight really quick.

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    Default Re: Technique question

    [quote=kenposikh]I was taught that once the wrist lock was on you would rotate it further clockwise followed by a palm heel strike to the hand/wrist causing a possible spiral fracture along the bones of the arm try puttin the lock on and then feel the pain as the wrist is rotated further and then pushed forwards ouch!!!!

    quote]

    I know that is what Mr. Palanzo does.
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    Default Re: Technique question

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    The insertion of a thumb lock after the elbow break and wrist lock will end the fight really quick.
    hey jamie...good point~ turns the kick and back-knuckle to a built-in 'even-if'.. even if you lose the lock, you remain in position to kick and strike!

    the thumb lock insert can move into a 'walk-with-me' lock or used to drop him to the ground for whole body (spinal) control.

    but where is the elbow break? best i can do on this one is a roll-over to control and maybe rub the tendon above the elbow...

    thanks, pete

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    Default Re: Technique question

    Quote Originally Posted by pete
    the thumb lock insert can move into a 'walk-with-me' lock or used to drop him to the ground for whole body (spinal) control.

    thanks, pete
    Hey buddy,

    That's exactly what I had in mind.

    The elbow break can be applied early as you are stepping with your left foot towards 2 o'clock and you use your right arm against the attackers right arm to cancel his width. If done hard, it will break.

    Pete - you are doing so amazing with your Kenpo. I wish we lived closer, brother.


    Jamie Seabrook

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    Default Re: Technique question

    I wish we lived closer, brother.
    me too!! we'd certainly have some fun... and i know i'd learn a lot from you.

    definitely baltimore in august... hopefully something sooner!

    pete

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    Default Re: Technique question

    We actually practice a technique called Repeated Devistation that is basically an extension to this one. It basically involves suffixing the technique with an elbow break followed by a hammerfist to the base of the skull simultaneoulsy executed with an instep sweep to the opponent's right leg.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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