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Thread: Minor Variations of Techniques

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    dubljay is offline
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    Default Minor Variations of Techniques

    I never really noticed how the way my instructor teaches the techniques vary slightly from the Belt Journal explanations. As I am compliling a list of techniques to be used on the Kenpo Talk main page I am using the Belt Journal explanations as a referance guide and the differences really become apparent.

    Does anyone else notice things like that? Particular things your instructor does differently than the "stock" material and does he/she tell you there is a difference?

    I personally don't feel that this is wrong, so long it doesn't bother me.
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    Sometimes, I find that some people keep older versions of techniques out of personal preferences. Other times, ive come across folks who've modified a techinique because there was something about how it was "supposed" to go that bothered them.

    I get this with some frequency at my school. We get shown how it used to go...the instructor will point what he precieves is the flaw and then goes into the altered technique and show why its better.

    I don't have a problem with it as I usually like what we end up doing better. However, I think there should be more familiarization of the by-the-book technique for when students visit other schools or attend seminars.
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    Smile Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    At the school I attend, we're taught both the ideal phase of the technique and (assuming we have the "ideal" version down pat) the "what-if" phase of the techniques, which are variations with real world applications. For uniformity at a seminar or camp, I agree with you that people should at least know the "ideal" phase of the technique as is written in the belt journals.

    However, for "real life" applications I would also want to make sure & learn all the variations of the techniques that my instructors know & are willing to teach me (for example, "Snaking Talon" against a left/right punch combo in addition to a front 2-handed low push).

    Yes, some instructors have probably changed a few over the years--so what? So did Mr. Parker, if I'm not mistaken. My old instructor (who studied under Mr. Parker for the last 3 years the man was alive) changed a technique & altered it to what he thought would happen in a real attack. Lots of instructors seem to keep what it comfortable or "feels right" for themselves, using the principle of "tailoring" & the equation formula (the "altering"). In my humble opinion (since I'm just a fellow colored belt), I personally do not have a problem with anyone changing/making adjustments to a technique as long as it does not violate any of the principles of motion within the technique, & the person can logically explain to me why they changed the parts that they did.

    Perhaps the techniques are written in the journals & belt charts in the "ideal phase" because that's what they are--ideas for you to play with & experiment with, not "set in stone." Remember the three phases of learning mentioned in Mr. Parker's "Infinite Insights into Kenpo, Vol. 1" ?

    Just some thoughts.
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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    Three phases of learning? Being that I haven't read the Insights series (SHAME ON ME!) I would have to guess, Primitive, Mechanical, and Spontaneous.



    I realize the Belt Journals are written for the ideal phase, I just never realized how much my instructor’s version of the “ideal” phase was different, as is my own.
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    yes, Josh, you're right, those are the three stages of learning, the primitive, mechanical, and spontaneous.
    there are also three stages of techniques. the "ideal phase" is "fantasay land." this is where the attacker will always do what he's supposed to and the technique will be executed as it always should be without encumbrance. the "what if" phase is where the attacker does something unexpected and the defender is able to compensate for it, usually unexpected variables but some can be expected. then there's the "formulation phase," where we can physically go out into the street and apply a technique as should it be used.
    See, all I've gotta do is get loose like I'm fluid, dude, Rollin' up my sleeves on my gi and get into it. You and who, him and them? Line up in a single file. One on one, all for one...end up in a bigger pile. The ambiance of Martial Arts is constant, Nunchucks chuckin' when I step in the mosh pit. Wing Chun dummy getting splintered apart, Escrima sticks whippin' and I'm chipping the bark. What are you? A pink belt? I'll give you a head start. Kumite killin', with the spirit of Ed Parker.

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    Lightbulb Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    As Chronuss said (thanks, Chad ), the idea that I was trying to explain in my original post, that no technique is a set pattern or rule unto itself but has 3 phases, was the "Three Phase Concept" (not the three stages of learning, although they do relate to each other). Sorry I did not make myself clear on that. For more on the Three Phase Concept, check out Chapter 7 of Vol. 5 of "Infinite Insights into Kenpo." I highly recommend that every Kenpo student read Mr. Parker's books (or in my case, reread them ), especially the Infinite Insights series & the Encyclopedia of Kenpo.

    Thanks, dubljay - your question made me think about what I was really trying to say & to be more precise; a very Kenpoish thing to do.

    Everyone have a Kenpo Day!
    Last edited by Gin-Gin2; 03-01-2005 at 11:52 AM.
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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    Thanks everyone for your replies. I know I should have read the Insights Series at least once, but there is the slight problem of them being out of print and myself being on a limited college budget. Perhaps I will be able to get them this summer.

    As for the ideal phase of a technique being fantasy land, I couldn't agree more. When I would be working with beginners, helping them learn techniques I would often not act the way I was "supposed to" as perscribed by the technique. It was amazing how they would just freeze up in the middle of the technique. They eventually got used to me being a non compliant dummy.

    Thanks again everyone.

    -Josh-
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by dubljay
    I never really noticed how the way my instructor teaches the techniques vary slightly from the Belt Journal explanations. As I am compliling a list of techniques to be used on the Kenpo Talk main page I am using the Belt Journal explanations as a referance guide and the differences really become apparent.

    Does anyone else notice things like that? Particular things your instructor does differently than the "stock" material and does he/she tell you there is a difference?

    I personally don't feel that this is wrong, so long it doesn't bother me.
    That material is not cast in stone. "They are only ideas." according to Ed Parker himself. The instructor is resposible for designing and implementing the so-called "ideal" technique and teaching it for his students. Besides it would be impossoble to follow that material for many reasons. It may tell you "what" but never addresses "how."
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    Besides it would be impossoble to follow that material for many reasons. It may tell you "what" but never addresses "how."
    I'm not quite sure I follow you on this one, Sir. The belt journals give you examples of motion and how to get from A to B to C and so on. To try and cover as many variables as possible we have numerous techniques on the web of knowledge. The more advanced techniques in the system are only more basics put together to cover more how many ways can apply individual basics on our attacker. Front, back, right side, left side, above, and below.
    Hmm, unless you are trying to relay to us the applications of the techniques themselves. Which you won't find in the journals.

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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth
    The more advanced techniques in the system are only more basics put together to cover more how many ways can apply individual basics on our attacker. Front, back, right side, left side, above, and below.
    yep...we've got 154 ways of doing eight things...ain't it cool?
    See, all I've gotta do is get loose like I'm fluid, dude, Rollin' up my sleeves on my gi and get into it. You and who, him and them? Line up in a single file. One on one, all for one...end up in a bigger pile. The ambiance of Martial Arts is constant, Nunchucks chuckin' when I step in the mosh pit. Wing Chun dummy getting splintered apart, Escrima sticks whippin' and I'm chipping the bark. What are you? A pink belt? I'll give you a head start. Kumite killin', with the spirit of Ed Parker.

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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronuss
    yep...we've got 154 ways of doing eight things...ain't it cool?
    Add in the possibilities from the equation formula, and the extensions... and you'll have way more than 154 ways.


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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    I meant..uh...in the ideal phase...yeah, that's it.
    See, all I've gotta do is get loose like I'm fluid, dude, Rollin' up my sleeves on my gi and get into it. You and who, him and them? Line up in a single file. One on one, all for one...end up in a bigger pile. The ambiance of Martial Arts is constant, Nunchucks chuckin' when I step in the mosh pit. Wing Chun dummy getting splintered apart, Escrima sticks whippin' and I'm chipping the bark. What are you? A pink belt? I'll give you a head start. Kumite killin', with the spirit of Ed Parker.

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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronuss
    I meant..uh...in the ideal phase...yeah, that's it.
    I guess that would depend on what your ideals are.

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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Lear
    I guess that would depend on what your ideals are.
    You are making him think too hard.

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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    All right, who else sees the smoke..? ;D
    Susan A. Spann

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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth
    You are making him think too hard.
    yeah...nothing should involve the medulla oblongata after a day of classes..
    See, all I've gotta do is get loose like I'm fluid, dude, Rollin' up my sleeves on my gi and get into it. You and who, him and them? Line up in a single file. One on one, all for one...end up in a bigger pile. The ambiance of Martial Arts is constant, Nunchucks chuckin' when I step in the mosh pit. Wing Chun dummy getting splintered apart, Escrima sticks whippin' and I'm chipping the bark. What are you? A pink belt? I'll give you a head start. Kumite killin', with the spirit of Ed Parker.

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    Default Re: Minor Variations of Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronuss
    yeah...nothing should involve the medulla oblongata after a day of classes..
    pfg. PFG!!
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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