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Thread: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

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    Default Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Joel Ellis
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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    I thought it looked pretty good, but I like to see, hard forward bows, and these were a little lax.
    Sean
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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    I would like to see him move more proximally.

    But I would also like a million dollars.
    A good teacher is a master of simplification and an enemy of simplism. ~ Louis A. Berman

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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastkenpoist View Post
    I would like to see him move more proximally.

    But I would also like a million dollars.
    You in some trouble now. LOL
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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Nice.

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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Quote Originally Posted by drexcell View Post
    Nice.
    That in a word, is the problem.
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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    That in a word, is the problem.
    True.
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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Quote Originally Posted by J Ellis View Post
    Larry was taught by Paul Mills, who doesn't really use stances, and uses his own natural gift of upper body movement and speed. However, if you observe the lower body, there is very little movement if any. Larry is a good guy, but like a piece I wrote recently, he is the victim of his teachers deficiencies and/or preferences for execution. Watch the video again, and place your hand over the upper body and watch nothing but the feet, and you'll see essentially, not much going on. Kenpo has great innovative footwork and stances, but only if you understand them first, and then secondly actually choose to use them. Frank Trejo won the IKC Grand Champion Forms, with Long 4, beating out the acrobats, and traditionalists, but he had stances. Not like this.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Larry was taught by Paul Mills, who doesn't really use stances, and uses his own natural gift of upper body movement and speed. However, if you observe the lower body, there is very little movement if any. Larry is a good guy, but like a piece I wrote recently, he is the victim of his teachers deficiencies and/or preferences for execution. Watch the video again, and place your hand over the upper body and watch nothing but the feet, and you'll see essentially, not much going on. Kenpo has great innovative footwork and stances, but only if you understand them first, and then secondly actually choose to use them. Frank Trejo won the IKC Grand Champion Forms, with Long 4, beating out the acrobats, and traditionalists, but he had stances. Not like this.
    I like the Paul Mills stuff, but a little directional harmony would help. LOL
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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Interesting to watch. Not exactly how I had researched the angles nor quite the same I came up with when trying to piece together my own version.
    You are not here to win friends. You are not here to look pretty. You are not here to stare at some chick's @ss. You know why you're here. And if you don't, then get the **** out because you're just taking up space......So SHUT up and TRAIN - Flex Mag.


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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    After going back & watching the video several times over again, I can certainly appreciate his slower moves shown within the form. At least we can make out what he is doing & where his is going. Reading the posts, especially Doc's, there is virtually no lower rotation of the body. I don't know the gentleman in the video nor am I trying to say his form is bad but even going slow you have to show, no, you have to prononouce each move along with the lower body & upper body synch'ed together. A bigger, stronger, or tougher guy can get away without using as much lower body but smaller guy's like me could never get away with doing just this. We just don't have the mass. That's why I hate seeing god blessed twist through manuevers when watching our short 1. Um, regardless back on topic. I had a class years ago where Mr. Wedlake came to our neck of the woods to run us from short 1 - form 6. There's not enough time for me to type all of what he said but to sum up a little... The lower body dictates the speed of the upper body. Otherwise it just looks sloppy. Now before people go & email Mr. Wedlake what I stated here. That may not have been his exact words. I was paraphrasing which is why there's no quotation marks.

    I still liked the video. Furthermore, there is a video posted of me somewhere from last year doing short 3 in a tournament. If any one would like to comment, I did put a video of me out there. Actually KenpoCoach put the video on youtube.
    Jason
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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Gotta agree, not much going on downstairs in this vid. Not deliberately trying to stir the pot, tho towards the end here's Mr Trejo demonstrating what Mr Mills tends to do..


    I didn't see to much of that either on the vid, even an orange belt should spot Mr Kongaika didn't change stance for the punch in 5 swords, or seem to really change his weight distribution or anything.
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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Quote Originally Posted by madeku View Post
    Gotta agree, not much going on downstairs in this vid. Not deliberately trying to stir the pot, tho towards the end here's Mr Trejo demonstrating what Mr Mills tends to do..


    I didn't see to much of that either on the vid, even an orange belt should spot Mr Kongaika didn't change stance for the punch in 5 swords, or seem to really change his weight distribution or anything.
    Well, Frank did have a significant input to Paul Mill's Kenpo training, so that seems appropriate. That is the natural evolution of movement, to maximize efficiency. However, problem is, that like with cursive writing, you can't just get there and have good form if you don't learn to print individual letters. That is why our first forms are stop and go, full extension, lock into the stance, index chamber positions, etc....so we learn the "parameters" of proper motion. Once learned, the body can move within these parameters to achieve maximum results. Problem is, most skip that step and just try to look cool, copying the top guys. Yet the lack of engrained proper basics becomes painfully obvious to a discerning eye

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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Just a reminder how much honest comments can go to mitigate some of the MFL stuff. Nobody is attacking anyone, all are good guys but the topic is Kenpo. If its MFL then everything is fine, they look "fine," wow just as one poster said. But nobody get's better at least in knowledge, if not execution, if everyone is so politically correct they don't want to hurt someone's feelings. If a friend might go into a gunfight, and his gun isn't loaded, I think you have an obligation to tell him.

    Thanks for posting Frank's seminar. A good illustration of stances, and how they can be utilized in good Kenpo, over just fast hands. It also emphasizes what I said about the talent of the man in his younger days. A phenom for sure.
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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Quote Originally Posted by madeku View Post
    Gotta agree, not much going on downstairs in this vid. Not deliberately trying to stir the pot, tho towards the end here's Mr Trejo demonstrating what Mr Mills tends to do..


    I didn't see to much of that either on the vid, even an orange belt should spot Mr Kongaika didn't change stance for the punch in 5 swords, or seem to really change his weight distribution or anything.
    He's mimicking his teacher, but without his teachers "gift." Paul seems to get away with it, because of natural offensive talent but his students won't. Larry's a good guy, but we all pretty much do what and how we're taught.
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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    On the other hand, if you are big enough, your moves need to only make an impression; so, he may get away with fighting in this manner. A little guy, not so much.
    Sean
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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    I've had my butt handed to me by "little guys". LOL!!
    I imagine they had directional harmony.
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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    I'm sorry, what is MFL short for?

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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Martial Fantasy League....?
    "To be, rather than to seem"

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

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    Default Re: Short Form 4 - Kongaika

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    He's mimicking his teacher, but without his teachers "gift." Paul seems to get away with it, because of natural offensive talent but his students won't. Larry's a good guy, but we all pretty much do what and how we're taught.
    Three things right off the bat: In Mr. Mills AKKI, we don't really do form 4. So I'm guessing Mr. Larry is doing this on his own. Second, he doesn't seem too intense, looks like he's just warming up. Also, while I'm sure Mr. Mills was under Mr. Trejo at some point, he did spend a significant amount of time with Mr. Parker. I know Mr. Mills doesn't get credited with full stance changes from the videos posted on youtube, however, there are more sophisticated ways to move. Or, more efficient and practical maneuevers. Mr. Parker had a gift, Mr. Trejo has the gift, and so does Mr. Mills. Mr. Trejo may have passed on quite a bit of knowledge to Mr. Mills, however, to suggest that Mr. Mills never trained and had private lessons with Mr. Parker is just a little too much.
    Mr. Mills has been more than happy to credit his skill and knowledge to Mr. Parker, rather than take credit for himself.
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