Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: SubLevel Kenpo Concepts

  1. #1
    Drew is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    711
    Thanks
    556
    Thanked 587 Times in 326 Posts

    Default SubLevel Kenpo Concepts

    SubLevel Kenpo Concepts

    Our Motto
    Integrity through Excellence

    Our mission statement is a simple motto. It embodies the essence of the existence of the Martial Science University Family. Simply put, we exist to perpetuate the good name and works of our progenitor, Mr. Ed Parker Sr. as well as all the many facets of the martial sciences, beyond his yet unfinished American Kenpo.

    With SubLevel Four Kenpo we have chosen to explore Mr. Parker’s creation through to its many advanced concepts. It is not our desire to “traditionalize” his work, but by Ed Parker’s own wish, take it to new levels of proficiency. By doing this, we raise his works to the level of the true science he envisioned and performed, while maintaining humane, reasonable, and ethical martial applications as we were taught.
    Others have made a choice to stay within the context of Mr. Parker’s published commercial works. Something Ed Parker himself didn’t do. We have chosen to move in the direction Mr. Parker himself was pursuing. We are very fortunate Mr. Parker taught, and pointed the way for our Senior Director, who has taken on this extremely monumental task to move the science further into the future for all Martial Science University Students regardless of style or discipline.

    Although by no means an easy road, we feel our motto, when used as a guide, will keep us moving in a moral and ethical direction. Simply stated, we derive our excellence by maintaining our integrity in the teaching process, as well as in the pursuit of the science. Our standards are uncompromising. Our integrity is fueled by our demand for excellence. Therefore, one feeds off the other and, insure the existence of the whole. This is important if we are not to become a shell or shadow of Mr. Parker’s dream of a true martial science.

    In doing this, we will bring only the best of the science to all who would abide by the strict principles and guidelines necessary for excellence and study, and will always strive to maintain it. We will do what Mr. Parker could not do in his desire to spread a form of his art around the world. We will reject those who do not have the work ethic, desire, mantle or physical capacity to study and execute a true physical science. Some may be accepted, but many will be rejected. In the real world, not everyone can be elite or even good. We have a line we have drawn for furtherance of the science in our "University." All others, I’m afraid, will have to be spectators of what we do if they can’t meet these standards, as it has always been in higher education, and so it is too with this University and SubLevel Kenpo Concepts™
    Last edited by Bob Hubbard; 12-12-2008 at 05:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    2,796
    Thanks
    578
    Thanked 1,842 Times in 1,069 Posts

    Default Re: SubLevel Kenpo Concepts

    -David C
    http://www.kungfubooksonline.com

    "...while you guys are arguing, I'm on the grind."
    - an anonymous brick puncher

    "If you don't ask the right questions, I can't give you the answers, and if you don't know the right question to ask, you're not ready for the answers"
    -Ed Parker Sr.

    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,388
    Thanks
    820
    Thanked 1,333 Times in 839 Posts

    Default Re: SubLevel Kenpo Concepts

    Nice marketing statement.
    Last edited by Eastcoastkenpoist; 08-07-2010 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Don't want to pee in the Kool-aid

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,214
    Thanks
    305
    Thanked 1,123 Times in 552 Posts

    Default Re: SubLevel Kenpo Concepts

    Sounds neat!
    May I ask what sciences are used as a base and in what area Dr. Chapel habilitated? Is he the only one on the board with a scientific / medical degree? He seems to be the only one with a listed degree in University's staff overview.

    I think it's a great idea to put it on a scientific base (as opposed to the "art" that's commonly used). The Martial Science in the modern day would need to be truly multi disciplinary, starting from sports science, stochastic (to determine the likely-hood of attacks/ types of attacks based on certain criteria), ( bio ) mechanics, medicine, jura, etc.

    And what area is this discipline mostly based on? I'd suspect it to be sports science but depending on the pov other disciplines might be fitting as well. I know that a bio-mechanic university course had used Judo before and I've read thesis related to MA from quite a range of disciplines (mostly applied physics, sport science, philosophy, history and medicine, though).

    One aspect I am not really sure about is the how do you apply the scientific method to Kenpo. If you have a certain idea, I think it would be quite complicated to verify this idea scientifically since you'll need a pretty large group (and control group) to get good results.

    Let's say you want to get some basic data on say Delayed Sword. In the ideal case you take Kenpoists with different belt levels, say orange to black and take a pretty large group of attacker per person, say 100? Then you tell each of the attackers individually (and w/o knowledge of the defender) what to do (like grab him and pull him away, grab him and punch him, grab him and do nothing, etc.)
    And even one successful attack might cause the defender to be taken out of the system which might pollute the results of the experiments.

    Hm, other aspects might be more easy to validate like the damage of different body weapons (maybe against different targets and in relation to certain aspects of the practitioner's body (primary muscle fiber type of the involved muscles, mass, etc.). Kinda like "human weapon" just less cheesy and with a wider array of tests.

    I also find it interesting that you refer to certain criteria your members have to meet. May I ask what these criteria are? I assume that besides the theoretical part there's also a practical aspect? Are there any numbers for strength/speed/coordination/endurance/reaction you can share? Do you have relative criteria (depending on age, mass, sex (for example)) or do you have absolute standards everybody has to fulfill?

    Is the belt system parallel to the formal education, or do they go hand in hand?

    So many questions... I do have a whole bunch more, to be honest, but I'll wait with those a bit
    殺意の忍者猿コーディング
    "Using big words and obscure terms to make yourself sound like you know what you're talking about is typical, until you have to actually explain." - "Doc" Chapél
    "A belt only covers two inches of your ass and the rest you need to back up on your own." - Royce Gracie
    ‎"In Tai Chi, practitioners are classified as being either turtles or fish. A turtle swims by just using it limbs. A fish swims by using its whole body. Be a fish." - Lee Wedlake, "Kenpo 301"

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lenny For This Useful Post:

    Brother John (08-07-2010),thesensei (08-07-2010)

  6. #5
    Drew is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    711
    Thanks
    556
    Thanked 587 Times in 326 Posts

    Default Re: SubLevel Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
    Sounds neat!
    May I ask what sciences are used as a base and in what area Dr. Chapel habilitated? Is he the only one on the board with a scientific / medical degree? He seems to be the only one with a listed degree in University's staff overview.
    Just about everyone in the school has some degree, and there are several with advanced degrees. So, many of the students are as well educated at the teachers. There are physicians, chiropractors, lawyers, cops, pharmacists, engineers, and the list goes on. To the best of my knowledge everyone listed on the staff page has at least a B.A., with several pf those having advanced degrees, but I think Doc is the only one with a Ph.D (Ted Humphrey may, but I cannot remember). Mr. Angell is a licensed acupuncturist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
    And what area is this discipline mostly based on? I'd suspect it to be sports science but depending on the pov other disciplines might be fitting as well. I know that a bio-mechanic university course had used Judo before and I've read thesis related to MA from quite a range of disciplines (mostly applied physics, sport science, philosophy, history and medicine, though).
    I would say the core of the material is drawn from the field of sports science and human performance. My overall knowledge of the field, while growing, is still limited, but the principles in SL4 are similar to those I see all over the place, e.g. "movement theory," PNF, training the nervous system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
    One aspect I am not really sure about is the how do you apply the scientific method to Kenpo. If you have a certain idea, I think it would be quite complicated to verify this idea scientifically since you'll need a pretty large group (and control group) to get good results.
    Yes and no. The science of human movement is proscribed by the human body. There are optimal ways to move in a given context with a given purpose. There are general movement principles that apply to general physical performance and those that are limited to a sport specific context. For example, there are some general similarities in tennis and batting, but there are far more specific elements that have to be addressed.

    So, the science is the science. This means there is a lot of research and studies that are out there that relate to the field generally. Doc does not have to create the entire scientific field out of whole cloth. What makes him unique is he is a pioneer of approaching martial "arts" from a human performance perspective (and still is one of the few I know of). Fortunately, many of the activities in Kenpo are readily verifiable, just as they are in many activities. By way of comparison, you can go to a swing coach and perhaps add 25 yds to your drive. In the context of Kenpo, the same thing happens on the floor every night. You can usually test the results pretty quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
    Let's say you want to get some basic data on say Delayed Sword. In the ideal case you take Kenpoists with different belt levels, say orange to black and take a pretty large group of attacker per person, say 100? Then you tell each of the attackers individually (and w/o knowledge of the defender) what to do (like grab him and pull him away, grab him and punch him, grab him and do nothing, etc.)
    And even one successful attack might cause the defender to be taken out of the system which might pollute the results of the experiments.
    I don't think so. Tiger has bad days, Payton Manning still throws interceptions, Jerry Rice dropped the occasional ball, and Serena faults. No human has a 100% success rate; therefore, the possibility of failure is ever present. The approach of SL4 is to maximize your own physical performance, minimize the variables, weaken your opponent, and to respond with devastating (or sufficient) force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
    Hm, other aspects might be more easy to validate like the damage of different body weapons (maybe against different targets and in relation to certain aspects of the practitioner's body (primary muscle fiber type of the involved muscles, mass, etc.). Kinda like "human weapon" just less cheesy and with a wider array of tests.
    The scientific measurements are good because they are objective and readily lend themselves to comparison. As of right now, the ability of any of us to do that is limited. Although not everything is measured, they are still verifiable and repeatable. For example the opening of nerve cavities is easy to demonstrate and just about everyone is sensitive enough to feel the difference of even a light "strike" (maybe even just a poke) proceeded by some action that opens the cavity versus the same touch without the prior contact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
    I also find it interesting that you refer to certain criteria your members have to meet. May I ask what these criteria are? I assume that besides the theoretical part there's also a practical aspect? Are there any numbers for strength/speed/coordination/endurance/reaction you can share? Do you have relative criteria (depending on age, mass, sex (for example)) or do you have absolute standards everybody has to fulfill?
    Generally speaking, the criteria are usually more mental than physical. Doc usually expects a college degree as a minimum. The student has to be a good citizen and successfully pass a screening interview. Doc doesn't teach kids. And I think that there is some judgment call in there too. If someone's presence on the floor is going to be detrimental to the students, they likely not be accepted. But the students run the gamut with regard to size and age; Doc has had 18 year olds to Lincoln, who is in his 70s I believe. The smaller students are expected to work with the larger students.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
    Is the belt system parallel to the formal education, or do they go hand in hand?
    The belt system is still there, but the the courses are referred by their number, not the belt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
    So many questions... I do have a whole bunch more, to be honest, but I'll wait with those a bit
    Next.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing;
    drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    and drinking largely sobers us again. --Alexander Pope

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Drew For This Useful Post:

    MarkC (08-08-2010)

  8. #6
    Drew is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    711
    Thanks
    556
    Thanked 587 Times in 326 Posts

    Default Re: SubLevel Kenpo Concepts

    For the record, the web administrator is slow getting my picture up.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing;
    drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    and drinking largely sobers us again. --Alexander Pope

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Parkville
    Posts
    1,112
    Thanks
    328
    Thanked 628 Times in 387 Posts

    Default Re: SubLevel Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Doc usually expects a college degree as a minimum.
    well i'm screwed there, lol not that i'd likely be living out in California in the first place.
    Brian Sheets
    VKKSI Kenpo 1st Black

    Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it." ~ Unknown
    "Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting, but never hit soft." Theodore Roosevelt



  10. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    2,796
    Thanks
    578
    Thanked 1,842 Times in 1,069 Posts

    Default Re: SubLevel Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny View Post

    One aspect I am not really sure about is the how do you apply the scientific method to Kenpo. If you have a certain idea, I think it would be quite complicated to verify this idea scientifically since you'll need a pretty large group (and control group) to get good results.
    How do you apply the scientific method to going to medical school to become a doctor? MSU is not doing scientific research any more than my wife's Nursing school did, they are teaching practitioners to do things based on what the research already revealed.
    -David C
    http://www.kungfubooksonline.com

    "...while you guys are arguing, I'm on the grind."
    - an anonymous brick puncher

    "If you don't ask the right questions, I can't give you the answers, and if you don't know the right question to ask, you're not ready for the answers"
    -Ed Parker Sr.

    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DavidCC For This Useful Post:

    Drew (08-10-2010),MarkC (08-09-2010)

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Traditional Forms & SubLevel Four Kenpo
    By Doc in forum Parker - Chapél / SubLevel 4 Kenpo™
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 05-21-2008, 06:56 PM
  2. " Kenpo in the Streets" Part 1
    By Bob Hubbard in forum Ed Parker Sr. Memories from Ed Parker Jr.
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-22-2007, 04:13 PM
  3. MT: Kenpo Vs ???
    By MT Post Bot in forum Kenpo From Other Boards
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-25-2007, 06:21 PM
  4. 20 Questions With John M. La Tourrette
    By Rob Broad in forum Bios
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-17-2007, 10:38 PM
  5. Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts
    By Dr. Dave in da house in forum Parker - Chapél / SubLevel 4 Kenpo™
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 10-27-2006, 01:05 PM