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Thread: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

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    Default April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    Opposing Circles
    (front body lock arms free head-right of center)
    1. As your opponent shoots in and past your checks and wraps his arms around your back, hip out and step back to 6:00 with your right leg to a left neutral bow as you snake yourl left hand down between your opponent's chest and yours. When your left arm descends below opponent's arm, make an outside in circle grapsing and trapping his right arm above his elbow. At the same time, snake your right hand under your opponent's neck underneath his mandible. As you lock your opponent's right arm, drive your forearm into the right side of his neck controlling his height and checking his depth as you simultaneously step back with your right foot toward 7:30 into a left forward bow to further brace your action.
    2. With your opponent's height and width cancelled, execute a right step through thrusting ball kick to the inside of your opponent's left knee. As you step down to a right neutral bow toward 1:30, execute a right inward rolling elbow across your opponent's nose.
    3. Without hesitation, execute a left rear cross toward 1:30 as you deliver a right hammering handsword to the inside of your opponent's right forearm at the radial nerve. Step toward 1:30 with your right foot to a left reverse bow to buckle the inside of your opponent's left leg and simultaneously execute a right hammer fist to your oponent's groin. As this action takes place, check with your left hand on the right side of your face.
    4. Right front crossover, cover out toward 6:00
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    Default Re: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    ...interesting....

    I'm not sure if I understand it all, but it sounds promising. I'll have to print this and take it to the dojo to try and work it and see what happens.
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    Default Re: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    ...interesting....

    I'm not sure if I understand it all, but it sounds promising. I'll have to print this and take it to the dojo to try and work it and see what happens.
    If you've had any clinch training, you may find this to be relatively intuitive.
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    Default Re: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    I'll admit my BJJ training is nowhere as extensive as someone like Dr. Dave...so, what is a body lock? How does one apply a lock to the entire body? How is this different from a bear hug?

    And what is the attacker trying to accomplish with the attack? I'm guessing this is a prelude to taking you down...?
    Last edited by Drew; 04-07-2008 at 04:22 PM.
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    Default Re: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    How is it different from a bear hug? I guess you'd have to be real specific about the definintion of a bear hug The basic position is chest-to-chest, he has his arms under yours, wrapped around you and his hands clasped. Sounds a lot like a bear hug but is there some nuance that makes it different? Depends on your terminology.

    Grappling is a chess match of positions, so achieving this position gives him more options for improved positions. This is a common position in MMA matches. Typically it appears the goal is to either throw you or to drag you down - to control your upper body to do whatever becomes necessary from there.

    I don't know what the psychology of this attack would be in a non-competitive scenario. Probably to throw, or perhaps just to smother my devastating kenpo stirkes! (which were apparently devastating enough to induce him to clinch but not quite devastating enough to end the fight LOL)
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    Default Re: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    This is a common position in MMA matches. Typically it appears the goal is to either throw you or to drag you down - to control your upper body to do whatever becomes necessary from there.
    If this is like what I did when I wrestled, then the only thing I can recall using it for is as a precursor for a take down. (But I really don't ever recall it being called a lock.)

    Without knowing more about the attack, I can't be sure whether this is a good response. For one, the head may be braced against the victim's body, making it quite difficult to get underneath. If the intent is a take down, then they aren't going to allow you to create space by stepping back--they'll pursue. And the rotation of the hips and shoulders into neutral bow may encourage the wrestler/attacker to 'twist' the hug and 'spin' you down. Plus, if he is coming with any body momentum with the hug, it is doubtful you can recover from that impact with a single step back, as it is written here.

    (Also, I don't think the footwork is written correctly in #1.)
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    Default Re: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    Opposing Circles
    (front body lock arms free head-right of center)[LIST=1][*]As your opponent shoots in and past your checks and wraps his arms around your back, hip out and step back to 6:00 with your right leg to a left neutral bow as you snake yourl left hand down between your opponent's chest and yours. When your left arm descends below opponent's arm, make an outside in circle grapsing and trapping his right arm above his elbow.
    Although this technique on some level may have merit as executed, the description has some "fatal" flaws. The operative word here is "shoot." A "shoot" usually designates a position where the head and shoulders take an extreme lead in the body momentum assault. It is essentially a "wrap up tackle" to the lower extremities, but is not confined to that area. When brought higher it is more of an aggressive bear hug assault.

    This is important because it also insinuates the assault brings with it a significant amount of inertial back-up mass, created by the attack itself. If indeed that is the case, stepping back with one foot will not be enough to "Survive the Initial Assault" to compensate, and overcome his Body Momentum.

    Additionally, raising the left shoulder to encircle his right arm will anatomically create a Physical Buoyancy that will exacerbate the lack of stability.

    Begin from a stable neutral bow stance, and have some apply constant frontal pressure. Now take your lead arm and raise is up as if looping your arm over and out. I think you will find even working from a predetermined stable position, this will cause significant problems of stability.
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    Default Re: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    If this is like what I did when I wrestled, then the only thing I can recall using it for is as a precursor for a take down. (But I really don't ever recall it being called a lock.)

    Without knowing more about the attack, I can't be sure whether this is a good response. For one, the head may be braced against the victim's body, making it quite difficult to get underneath. If the intent is a take down, then they aren't going to allow you to create space by stepping back--they'll pursue. And the rotation of the hips and shoulders into neutral bow may encourage the wrestler/attacker to 'twist' the hug and 'spin' you down. Plus, if he is coming with any body momentum with the hug, it is doubtful you can recover from that impact with a single step back, as it is written here.

    (Also, I don't think the footwork is written correctly in #1.)
    If I had any indication that a person was a good wrestler (thus, very adept at the shoot), I would forego this technique in favor of a full sprawl, no questions asked. This is because a wrestler is good with leg takedowns, heel picks, and slams from the body lock.

    The body lock is where the attacker's arms are wrapped around your waist (or as low as your butt) and they drive thier head into your chest to force a disruption of balance so that you fall. They can follow you down or let you go to the ground by yourself. Or, in the case of a good wrestler, they'll also pull your hips close to them so they can change levels, pick you up and slam you, unceremoniously, to the ground with great force.

    The body lock can be achieved from a failed shoot attempt, or one can move into this position from a low clinch (clinch switching drills are taught as a matter of protecting against the body lock from the low clinch).

    These switching drills teach you how to make space to drive in your arms, making more space or gaining strategic position. They also teach you to drop your weight so that you keep your own balance. This is "embryonically" addressed by the "hip out" nomenclature used in this combat model. It is covered more extensively in class, even though we don't do the clinch switching drills. I got those techniques from sombo.
    But, the hip out technique is simple enough to teach the basics of dealing with a body lock.

    As I understand it, the combat model is continued into the next belt level and addresses when you have failed to get your hips out and are taken to the ground.

    In short a bear hug (arms free) is addressed in the curriculum with "Striking Serpant's Head" where the body lock (hands lower than a bear hug) is addressed in the third combat model of this belt level's curriculum.

    I hope this help and/or raises more questions. Oh, and the footwork is correct in step #1.
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    Default Re: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Although this technique on some level may have merit as executed, the description has some "fatal" flaws. The operative word here is "shoot." A "shoot" usually designates a position where the head and shoulders take an extreme lead in the body momentum assault.
    A good shoot technique doesn't have the head/shoulers lead the hips at all. That is an example of a bad shoot, imho. A good shoot comes from changing levels and keeping your head over your hips. You bend the legs not at the waist. Bending at the waist makes you vulnerable for many nasty things.

    It is essentially a "wrap up tackle" to the lower extremities, but is not confined to that area. When brought higher it is more of an aggressive bear hug assault.
    Kindly see "Striking Serpant's Head" in the 5.0 curriculum. That deals with what you've described here.

    This is important because it also insinuates the assault brings with it a significant amount of inertial back-up mass, created by the attack itself. If indeed that is the case, stepping back with one foot will not be enough to "Survive the Initial Assault" to compensate, and overcome his Body Momentum.
    The description does fall short in giving a good explaination about this. The step back needs to be executed with a dropping of weight and creating seperation between your hips and the attacker on a slanting path, | \ or / \ but, with a the left shoulder close and the right shoulder twisting slightly away...facilitated by the step back with the right foot.

    Additionally, raising the left shoulder to encircle his right arm will anatomically create a Physical Buoyancy that will exacerbate the lack of stability.
    Sure it would, if it caused you to raise your center (hips). But, you should be dipping the right shoulder and moving it away at the same time to avoid this. The other component to this is what is going on with the right hand putting pressure against the throat as it snakes around. This causes a pain compliance recoil or withdrawl of the head. Take the thumb side of a hand sword and rake it across your own trachea with some force. It's uncomfortable. Both hands and the step back with the right foot, all working in concert, creats necessary space to get on with the rest of the technique.


    Begin from a stable neutral bow stance, and have someone apply constant frontal pressure. Now take your lead arm and raise is up as if looping your arm over and out. I think you will find even working from a predetermined stable position, this will cause significant problems of stability.
    I work clinch drills weekly, extensively, and with full resistance. A weak clinch is, indeed dangerous. However, I believe the clinch game to be an art all its own and could stand to be addressed and drilled whenever possible.

    Just for giggles, I just pulled one of my co-workers out of his office...put
    out the PMAB mats (used for training staff how to deal with patient aggression) and worked on this. Result: it's a good and valid technique.

    Thanks for pointing out the shortcomings of the description as it encourages me to "think".

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    Default Re: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    Quote Originally Posted by toejoe2k View Post
    If I had any indication that a person was a good wrestler (thus, very adept at the shoot), I would forego this technique in favor of a full sprawl, no questions asked. This is because a wrestler is good with leg takedowns, heel picks, and slams from the body lock.

    .
    Amen to that brother! I work sprawling drills with our students pretty regularly for a couple of good reasons:
    • It's a good, solid defense against a shoot
    • It's easily executed by anyone (don't have to be a BJJ expert)
    • You can use your body weight to it's greatest advantage
    • You create an extreme angle of obscurity
    • You can recover, and get to your feet easily
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    Default Re: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    Quote Originally Posted by toejoe2k View Post
    If I had any indication that a person was a good wrestler (thus, very adept at the shoot), I would forego this technique in favor of a full sprawl, no questions asked. This is because a wrestler is good with leg takedowns, heel picks, and slams from the body lock.
    How would you know if they are a 'good wrestler' before they attacked?

    Quote Originally Posted by toejoe2k View Post
    The body lock is where the attacker's arms are wrapped around your waist (or as low as your butt) and they drive thier head into your chest to force a disruption of balance so that you fall. They can follow you down or let you go to the ground by yourself. Or, in the case of a good wrestler, they'll also pull your hips close to them so they can change levels, pick you up and slam you, unceremoniously, to the ground with great force.
    Thanks. I remember this--I just wish I could remember what it was called.

    Quote Originally Posted by toejoe2k View Post
    Oh, and the footwork is correct in step #1.
    Then maybe there is a step missing. It says step back right into left neutral bow. Then it says "step back with your right foot toward 7:30 into a left forward bow to further brace your action." Is there a shuffle or something here? Or are you just stepping up the clock with the rear foot?
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    Default Re: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    How would you know if they are a 'good wrestler' before they attacked?
    Note that I said,"If I had any indication that a person was a good wrestler..." That doesn't necessarily mean that I do know.

    Stance says a lot to me, if they take one before they attack. If they bend at the knees and are squared up and very open...it gives some indication of fighting style. Other than that, I guess if you know...you know. If you don't...then behave accordingly.


    Then maybe there is a step missing. It says step back right into left neutral bow. Then it says "step back with your right foot toward 7:30 into a left forward bow to further brace your action." Is there a shuffle or something here? Or are you just stepping up the clock with the rear foot?
    This is done to create the necessary angle for your arms to secure his arm and push against his neck (checks). Your hips should be out and away from him to that he cannot close distance and get your center next to his. The shift up the circle to 7:30 happens when your right arm is checking his height and width by pushing against his neck. It also sets up the line of entry for the kick to the inside of the knee.

    Make no mistake, the action here will be very dynamic and fast. Especially if he is trying to put you down or pick you up off the floor.

    Great question! I hope this helps. Then, we could always benefit from the input of the AKKS blackbelts.
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    Default Re: April 2008 5.0 Technique of the Month - Opposing Circles

    Just an FYI, the preceeding technique in this combat model deal with the situation where you successfully stop his shoot and control his head with a plumb clinch.

    Maybe next month, heh?
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