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Thread: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

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    Default October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    Inside Defense Against A Right Punch

    1) Immediately drop into a left neutral bow simultaneously executing a sweeping left claw to the attackers face. *The angle of the left arm is approximately 45 degrees and the method of execution is much the same as if you were executing an extended outward block as it serves the same purpose; to intercept and stop the punch while simultaneously executing a strike.

    2) Transition into a forward lunge stance executing a right rear hand/reverse punch to attackers solar plexus (left hand checks against additional action)

    3) Execute a left straight punch to attackers face simultaneously executing a right ball kick to attackers groin settling into a right neutral bow.

    4) cover out....
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Inside Defense Against A Right Punch

    1) Immediately drop into a left neutral bow simultaneously executing a sweeping left claw to the attackers face. *The angle of the left arm is approximately 45 degrees and the method of execution is much the same as if you were executing an extended outward block as it serves the same purpose; to intercept and stop the punch while simultaneously executing a strike.

    2) Transition into a forward lunge stance executing a right rear hand/reverse punch to attackers solar plexus (left hand checks against additional action)

    3) Execute a left straight punch to attackers face simultaneously executing a right ball kick to attackers groin settling into a right neutral bow.

    4) cover out....
    Cover out? toward 6:00 o'clock?

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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    I am not familiar with the IKCA system, so am having problems visualising the technique from this description. I do not see a similar technique in EPAK. I have just a question on the attack, and on the first move:

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Inside Defense Against A Right Punch
    A straight punch, hook punch, reverse punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    1) Immediately drop into a left neutral bow simultaneously executing a sweeping left claw to the attackers face. *The angle of the left arm is approximately 45 degrees and the method of execution is much the same as if you were executing an extended outward block as it serves the same purpose; to intercept and stop the punch while simultaneously executing a strike.


    I am not seeing how you get into that left-neutral, or the direction you take to get there. If stepping back to 6 that punch will be coming straight at you still (that's fine, just trying to picture whats going on).

    From your description it seems that your left claw is circling counter-clockwise. With that punch coming towards you, I do not see this response being my first choice of defence. You will have to get that strike in quite early, before his punch starts (try reading *that*). With the punch coming at you, most likely your arm will get caught up with his (it will be in your face and extended before you anticipate), and do little to stop it's travel.

    You seem to have no mechanism to control his width and height - only his depth, assuming that you get your claw on target. So that second punch off his left arm will be incoming still.

    And what happens if he's got longer arms than you? There's no way you'll reach his face for the claw.

    Like I said I am not familiar with the technique, these are questions that popped into my head with no other source of information on the technique. Are you expecting that with the claw, his arm will retract back to his face protectively, rather than complete the punch action? I hope you have dental insurance...

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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    I am not familiar with the IKCA system, so am having problems visualising the technique from this description. I do not see a similar technique in EPAK. I have just a question on the attack, and on the first move:
    Darting Mace is the first EPAK tech that comes to mind. They are similar. Perhaps that will help you better understand the description.



    A straight punch, hook punch, reverse punch?
    It can be used against a straight punch or roundhouse.



    I am not seeing how you get into that left-neutral, or the direction you take to get there. If stepping back to 6 that punch will be coming straight at you still (that's fine, just trying to picture whats going on).
    It is designed for close quarters where space is limited. You do not "step" but go from a natural position to blading ubruptly. Your right leg obviously goes back....think of it in terms of a jumping swich. Does that make sense?

    From your description it seems that your left claw is circling counter-clockwise. With that punch coming towards you, I do not see this response being my first choice of defence. You will have to get that strike in quite early, before his punch starts (try reading *that*). With the punch coming at you, most likely your arm will get caught up with his (it will be in your face and extended before you anticipate), and do little to stop it's travel.
    No. As stated, the mechanics are the same as executing an extended outward block. The only difference is that your hand is not in a fist, it is instead in a claw which will also extend your reach. Since the mechanics are pretty much the same as an extended outward block, it goes without saying that it is just as effective as creating the proper angle of deflection.

    You seem to have no mechanism to control his width and height - only his depth, assuming that you get your claw on target. So that second punch off his left arm will be incoming still.
    There is no left punch in this technique. Perhaps I do not understand your question. Just as any EPAK, Tracy, or other Kenpo technique that deals with a right punch stands to have to deal with a follow up left, I suppose the same could be said here. But to address that we would do the same as any EPAK or Tracy school and discuss grafting and/or the equation formula.

    And what happens if he's got longer arms than you? There's no way you'll reach his face for the claw.
    I won't deny that's a possibility. But you know, that's a possibility that would need to be addressed by any technique dealing with a punch wouldn't it? Where range is concerned it is sometimes necessary to utilize proper footwork to close the gap. If I don't hit with the claw (granted by extending my fingers I increase the range) I still block the strike which is the primary concern.

    This technique is designed for close quarters. I should have stated such in my original break down.

    Like I said I am not familiar with the technique, these are questions that popped into my head with no other source of information on the technique. Are you expecting that with the claw, his arm will retract back to his face protectively, rather than complete the punch action? I hope you have dental insurance...
    In most cases where you catch someone in the eye I would expect their hand to go to their face, but if it doesn't I would still continue.

    The mechanics involved are the same as for an extended outward block, so just as I would expect an extended outward block to stop a punch, so to would I expect this maneuver to do the same.

    I hope this helps you to better understand the technique. Perhaps some of my fellow IKCA brothers and sisters would throw me a bone here and chime in?

    And yes, I have dental insurance....and all my teeth still as well.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    Well, I'm not sure the mechanics are the same, at least not the way I was taught to do the EOB. My fist does not come within a finger's length of the attacker's face when I do an EOB. So I would have to extend my arm (straighten it) to reach the face, meaning I am sweeping through much more of a cone instead of a hammering line.

    post a video!



    there is no left punch in this technique
    I read somewhere that the ideal phase should (ideally) account for the possibility of a second strike and an attempted grapple. That might just be for SL-4 techniques though, I don't remember where I read that.
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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    My two cents…

    Think of Bridging Claw as an interception technique, taught to block and strike simultaneously. The feet split while dropping into the neutral bow, rear foot ending up at roughly 5:30. Splitting the stance means that the left foot will come forward and the right foot rearward in equal amounts. If a defender has shorter arms Bridging Claw can be done as a stepping-in technique as well.

    The claw is more of a thrusting claw. Though the arm does follow an extended outward block trajectory, the elbow is slightly higher and the arm is in more of a slightly extended position. Many times the attackers inside forearm just below the elbow will impale itself on the point of the defender’s elbow. This formation will allow the claw to bridge the gap to the attacker’s face (hence the name).

    On a side note: When executing the initial move, I teach my students to raise the shoulder slightly and lower the head slightly (not lowering the chin to the chest). This provides more of a “boxer’s cover” against the roundhouse punches, just for insurance.

    Keep in mind, as Rob states, this is meant for closer quarters. I’ve found this technique to be very effective where it’s intended to be used when not having the option to step fully back. The right hand is available during the initial move to guard against the possible left punch (as is the left). The right punch can easily be thrown to the face as well (kinda like that myself).

    Let the questions/observations continue…

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    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Institute
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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Darting Mace is the first EPAK tech that comes to mind. They are similar. Perhaps that will help you better understand the description.
    yes I can see the relation now (the later part of the techniques). thanks. I think it was the initial 'outward extended/claw' that was throwing me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    It can be used against a straight punch or roundhouse.
    ok got it pictured now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    It is designed for close quarters where space is limited. You do not "step" but go from a natural position to blading ubruptly. Your right leg obviously goes back....think of it in terms of a jumping swich. Does that make sense?
    yes I think I see the theme of the technique, or at least the manner in which it would be applied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    No. As stated, the mechanics are the same as executing an extended outward block. The only difference is that your hand is not in a fist, it is instead in a claw which will also extend your reach. Since the mechanics are pretty much the same as an extended outward block, it goes without saying that it is just as effective as creating the proper angle of deflection.
    In that case I would say that I probably execute the extended-block a little differently, this is why I was having trouble with seeing the relationships. That's ok, just a different way of doing things that altered my view of this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    There is no left punch in this technique. Perhaps I do not understand your question. Just as any EPAK, Tracy, or other Kenpo technique that deals with a right punch stands to have to deal with a follow up left, I suppose the same could be said here. But to address that we would do the same as any EPAK or Tracy school and discuss grafting and/or the equation formula.
    Most (all?) of the punch techniques in EPAK deal with an 'assumed' follow-up punch implicitly in the teaching of the technique (this has been my experience anyway). This is why blocks to the punching arm in EPAK (for example) control height,width,depth etc - but by controlling width especially.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    I won't deny that's a possibility. But you know, that's a possibility that would need to be addressed by any technique dealing with a punch wouldn't it?
    yes I agree, just trying to understand your perspective on the technique

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Where range is concerned it is sometimes necessary to utilize proper footwork to close the gap. If I don't hit with the claw (granted by extending my fingers I increase the range) I still block the strike which is the primary concern.
    ok, so your outward-extended motion blocks the punch is required (depending on timing/range), or can claw the face depending on these same factors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    This technique is designed for close quarters. I should have stated such in my original break down.
    ok cool..

    In most cases where you catch someone in the eye I would expect their hand to go to their face, but if it doesn't I would still continue.
    *that* is the detail was not clear to me. Claw, but then block as well.

    I hope this helps you to better understand the technique. Perhaps some of my fellow IKCA brothers and sisters would throw me a bone here and chime in?

    And yes, I have dental insurance....and all my teeth still as well.

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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    In Shaolin Kempo we have a similar technique. It also uses a sweeping block like this, but in the other direction, to the outside of the arm, with my right. I know that sounds like totally different but it is really just the opposite LOL so it might actually be pretty interesting... I think I was just distracted by the different terms, I will definitely be doing this technique to some people this week

    Except for the simultaneous kick and punch, I'm afraid that would be like eating a turduken - less than the sum of its parts IMHO.
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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    Kind of reminds me of Co-ordination set I; also reminds me of a piece of the book set (which also reminds me of co-ord set I). I think the addition of a right strike while planting the right foot (from the kick) might serve to give another example of MOG (or maybe even something like a right uppercut to chin as example of RMOG).

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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    Kind of reminds me of Co-ordination set I; also reminds me of a piece of the book set (which also reminds me of co-ord set I). I think the addition of a right strike while planting the right foot (from the kick) might serve to give another example of MOG (or maybe even something like a right uppercut to chin as example of RMOG).
    That would be an acceptable suffix....I personally like adding an elbow/forearm strike after the kick.
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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    I'm terrible with names but this reminds me of the one against a push where you step in strike his face away with the heel palm while with a break to the pushing arm across your chest by slipping and pinning.
    Sean

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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    I'm terrible with names but this reminds me of the one against a push where you step in strike his face away with the heel palm while with a break to the pushing arm across your chest by slipping and pinning.
    Sean
    I'm not familiar with the tech you're describing. Maybe some other EPAKers can help us out here?

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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    I'm terrible with names but this reminds me of the one against a push where you step in strike his face away with the heel palm while with a break to the pushing arm across your chest by slipping and pinning.
    Sean
    Triggered Salute?
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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    Thanks for posting this. I have always been taught if your going to the inside of the attacking arm, you better be ready to follow with some offense and your checks better be good. I assume this is because of the lack of zone cancellations (look maw I used a big word lol). By altering the path of the EOB, and I'm assuming using a horizontal claw, I can see what the tech is meant to teach. Now I personally would prefer to attack the outside of the arm, but how can we count on this all the time? It seems important to practice also the things that may go wrong. Thank you Mr. Parsons and Mr. Crippler.

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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    I'm intrigued by the couple of statements expressing a concern about zone cancellations. By definition zone cancellation takes away the ability of an attacker to utilize that particular zone to their advantage. So looking at the technique when properly executed... what happens here?

    The initial move cancels the attacker’s depth zone beautifully. Forward momentum is halted and the thrusting action of the claw will actually begin the attacker on a rearward vector. If the attacker’s weight distribution was more than 50% forward this will likely return him to a neutral state (read all the post before what-iffing me); if the distribution was even then it will place more than 50% of the weight on the rear foot. The point being that neither of these positions is where the attacker intended to be and the forced adjustment = time that works to your advantage. Bottom line, the attack is no longer moving forward, which was the attacker’s intent.

    The initial move also strikes first on the high line (face) and this will usually cause one of two reactions affecting the height zone. This will depend on the actual angle of the strike and that will likely be dependent on the height difference of those involved. If the strike has a downward angle, most likely the chin will drop toward the chest, bringing the shoulders in, dropping the center of gravity back and down. This will place additional weight on the rear foot. If the strike is purely horizontal or on an upward vector it will force the head back having the affect of arching the back and expanding the chest, raising the center of gravity up and to the rear, again placing additional weight on the rear foot. In both cases described a balance/weight adjustment will be necessary to affect any response. If the attacker’s weight distribution is neutral from the depth cancellation, the height cancellation should insure the continued rearward vector.

    Cancellation of the width zone is tricky and admittedly partial at best, but it is there. My viewpoint being that the width zone will be affected (but maybe not entirely cancelled) by the cancellation of the first two. To optimize the width zone an attacker works horizontally around his own core. Merely stopping and reversing the horizontal vector of a roundhouse type punch or changing the vector of a straight punch can lend to a positive horizontal response of the opposite arm as the core reacts. One certainly needs to be aware of that possibility. But if I am changing the position of the core I will affect the width zone. The vectors must be looked at as a whole. The width zone is affected, just not as much as the depth and height.

    All of this off the initial move, but that’s the important one. Everything else will be done if everything goes right here.

    John, I just noticed your signature... guess I'll hang out the Intelligent Fool shingle now!


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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Triggered Salute?
    The logic of this one puts you on the outside. So your first move would be the mirror opposite of Triggered Salute.
    Sean

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    Default Re: October IKCA Technique of the Month -Bridging Claw

    Thank you for the post, I guess it's easy to forget how cancellation of some zones can affect the others. I believe your logic could put you more in the genius category though .

    Full Salute

    John

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