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Thread: November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

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    Default November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

    IKCA Kicking Set

    1. Drop back into Left Neutral Bow

    2. Right ball kick to the groin (off the back leg), land in Right Neutral Bow

    3. Slide up/step up front leg round kick to the groin, land in right cross stance (heel-toe alignment instead of toe-heel alignment)

    4. Step left behind right into a right twist stance into a right heel thrust kick, land in right cross stance

    5. Left spinning thrusting heel kick into Left Neutral Bow

    6. Step up and Left knife edge kick to the groin, set down the foot as you cover and turn 180 degrees.

    Repeat on other side.
    Last edited by KirkS; 11-07-2018 at 10:05 AM.
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    Default Re: November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkS View Post
    IKCA Kicking Set

    1. Drop back into Left Neutral Bow

    2. Right ball kick to the groin (off the back leg), land in Right Neutral Bow

    3. Slide up/step up front leg round kick to the groin, land in right cross stance (heel-toe alignment instead of toe-heel alignment)

    4. Step left behind right into a right twist stance into a right heel thrust kick, land in right cross stance

    5. Left spinning thrusting heel kick into Left Neutral Bow

    6. Step up and Left knife edge kick to the groin, set down the foot as you cover and turn 180 degrees.

    Repeat on other side.
    Mechanically sound, and directionally congruent.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Mechanically sound, and directionally congruent.
    Just to further discussion...

    It doesn't say "how" to do that first kick and transition into the right neutral bow. Some people pivot the front foot as they do the kick/stepthrough and some teach to pick up the front foot and plant it into position first.

    Interesting that even with the mechanically sound set, there are different ways of executing it that might make it into something else.
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    Default Re: November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    Just to further discussion...

    It doesn't say "how" to do that first kick and transition into the right neutral bow. Some people pivot the front foot as they do the kick/stepthrough and some teach to pick up the front foot and plant it into position first.

    Interesting that even with the mechanically sound set, there are different ways of executing it that might make it into something else.
    Of course, you're correct. While everything I said is true, I was only speaking of potential. Of course it requires a good and knowledgeable instructor to teach the proper basic mechanics of kicking. And that is a whole other talk show. The reality is all of the written material is that way. Laying out all the "whats" and leaving the "hows" to teachers. That in many ways makes modern Kenpo a very complex system methodology, that naturally requires an instructor with a higher level of skill and knowledge to be properly successful. Unfortunately, most just go through the system and are declared "instructors" because of rank sans the requisite experience to validate the title.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Of course, you're correct. While everything I said is true, I was only speaking of potential. Of course it requires a good and knowledgeable instructor to teach the proper basic mechanics of kicking. And that is a whole other talk show. The reality is all of the written material is that way. Laying out all the "whats" and leaving the "hows" to teachers. That in many ways makes modern Kenpo a very complex system methodology, that naturally requires an instructor with a higher level of skill and knowledge to be properly successful. Unfortunately, most just go through the system and are declared "instructors" because of rank sans the requisite experience to validate the title.
    Kind of a loose blue print then?
    Tradition is not about the preservation of the ashes, but about keeping the flame alive

    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it".
    ~George Orwell
    Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way." Booker T. Washington


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    Default Re: November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkS View Post
    Kind of a loose blue print then?
    The system is and always has been an "outline" of what to do, sort of cliff notes if you will that gives you the "essence" of the lesson, but the substance has to come from the person teaching you. And that my friend is where the problem lies.

    "Just because the red show, don't mean that you know." - Ed Parker Sr. I suggest Ed Parker knew the machinations of his own idea system better than anyone, and he knew that the weakness was in instructors. Originally they were recruited from other styles in the sixties and brought a degree of competency and experience with them. He soon discovered his system alone cannot create instructors. So if one's background is ONLY in Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate, without additional study, chances are they will be deficient and lacking in a great deal of understanding of the execution of the system. It was designed that way to force people to open up and explore the arts in general as well as impart some reasonable self-defense skills while doing it.

    People have tons of material in front of them and don't use it. ie Twisted Twig. How many have you seen who are able to do the attack properly? The outline suggests you learn HOW to do a wrist-flex throw or takedown, so you can learn to defend it. Instead, they learn the "defense" to a non-attack. Brilliant.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkS View Post
    Kind of a loose blue print then?
    Cliff notes as a guide.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

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    Default Re: November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    The system is and always has been an "outline" of what to do, sort of cliff notes if you will that gives you the "essence" of the lesson, but the substance has to come from the person teaching you. And that my friend is where the problem lies.

    "Just because the red show, don't mean that you know." - Ed Parker Sr. I suggest Ed Parker knew the machinations of his own idea system better than anyone, and he knew that the weakness was in instructors. Originally they were recruited from other styles in the sixties and brought a degree of competency and experience with them. He soon discovered his system alone cannot create instructors. So if one's background is ONLY in Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate, without additional study, chances are they will be deficient and lacking in a great deal of understanding of the execution of the system. It was designed that way to force people to open up and explore the arts in general as well as impart some reasonable self-defense skills while doing it.

    People have tons of material in front of them and don't use it. ie Twisted Twig. How many have you seen who are able to do the attack properly? The outline suggests you learn HOW to do a wrist-flex throw or takedown, so you can learn to defend it. Instead, they learn the "defense" to a non-attack. Brilliant.

    Great Stuff!!! the twisted twig and joint lock thing has always had me scratching my head!!! Somewhere it would seem that people lost half of the lessons with the attacks and better understanding them, and then the defense... But that's just me...
    "The problem is not whether or not you like bad kenpo, the problem is recognizing whether or not your kenpo is bad!"
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    Default Re: November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

    Final knife edge is 45 degrees downward on the knee.
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    Default Re: November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    Great Stuff!!! the twisted twig and joint lock thing has always had me scratching my head!!! Somewhere it would seem that people lost half of the lessons with the attacks and better understanding them, and then the defense... But that's just me...
    Well sir, if you look at the commercial system, (and most don't view it properly as you do), If you count all of the attempted pushes, actual pushes, bear hugs, locks, throws, takedowns, and chokes, the system itself is virtually 75% some form of grappling or manipulations implied to study. If you look at its history timeline, there was a period when all of these things were taught as the downline from William Chow's study with Henry Okazaki's Jiujitsu. In Mr. Parker's first book it is also implied heavily.

    In fact, the first series of techniques formulated from the 3x5 cards Mr. Parker took notes on in Hawaii did the same. It would tell you the technique ended with a "Throw" or "Takedown" but of course, they couldn't write down "how" to do it. Even Modern texts on this kind of martial information are essentially, "picture books" with no real info on execution. So much material had to be modified or left out to appeal to mass teaching of the commercial product. In many ways, it became "Kenpo-Lite" or a "Kenpo-Do" but this was necessary. The long slow methodology of the Chinese won't work in a business/franchise environment which begins and ends with the emphasis on stances and footwork transitions, which in Kenpo are functionally non-existent. The original techniques I have on film all ended with a takedown or throw, and even striking only techniques were expected to end with the attacker break falling to the ground. That is the way we trained.

    When Mr. Parker transitioned from his "Chinese Kenpo" (this is when I came into the art), where he began to explore the Chin-Na side of the manipulations I learned from Ark Wong as he did, it was a completely different experience that could not translate to his new branded "Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate." (Notice I didn't say American Kenpo because it is not) The old "blood and guts" days where we would close the doors and beat the crap out of each other had to go with the introduction of the "Arthur Murray Dance Studios" business model the new EPKK was based upon. This is why Mr. Parker recruited functional black belts from other styles to teach, to ensure it would have some degree of functionality that could not be written down.

    None of the "old school" Black Belt students transitioned to the Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate when it was introduced. Not one. Pick a name. No one followed him into the new era but many stayed affiliated without embracing the new material. Most considered the "new" Kenpo as "watered down" from the environment they came up in and they were correct. While most continued on with what they learned, in many cases breaking off to do their own thing, some left to go with Jimmy Woo or stayed with the Tracy's.

    It is no real mystery the most unexplained and least explored category listed in Infinite Insights Volume 1 is "Specialized Moves and Methods," or the many sub-categories of Mr. Parker's 4 Ranges of Combat he worked with me and a few others I would imagine. All of the old dino's like Chuck Sullivan, Hebler, LaBounty, Joe Dimmick, etc never transitioned and seem to be doing just fine. Joe Dimmick's Sam Pai Kenpo is a great example, while others just kept calling it "Kenpo." That is not to say there is not a lot of information available now we didn't have access to back then, and many continue to update and innovate within their own branches of teaching. But Nobody embraced what many consider now "gospel" in those cliff note manuals that contain virtually no real teaching information but are just reminders to teachers of things they need to explore not only with students but for themselves as well.

    Keep doing what you're doing, and maintain an open mind. There is so much we don't know, and that's why we keep working as Mr. Parker always did. (Emphasis on that whole "Open Mind" thing).
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

    I have always taught my students that at the end of any self-defense encounter, the perp should be forcibly driven outside of your circle of protection or on the ground. How they get there is up to you.

    If you finish and they are upright and within reach, you’re doing something wrong.

    Respects,

    Bill Parsons
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    Last edited by bdparsons; 1 Week Ago at 01:17 PM.
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    Default Re: November 2018 TOM Kicking Set

    Quote Originally Posted by bdparsons View Post
    I have always taught my students that at the end of any self-defense encounter, the perp should be forcibly driven outside of your circle of protection or on the ground. How they get there is up to you.

    If you finish and they are upright and within reach, you’re doing something wrong.

    Respects,

    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Istitute
    Amen, my Brother!
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

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