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Thread: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

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    Default September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Flashing Wings (Front- Right Step-Through Punch)
    1. An attacker from 12 o'clock comes at you with a right step-through punch.

    2. Step towards 12 o'clock with your left foot in a left neutral bow as you execute a left inward block.

    3. Shift into a forward bow as you execute a right inward elbow strike to your attacker's ribs.

    4. Shift back into the left neutral bow as you execute a right outward elbow strike to your attacker's ribs.

    5. Execute a right outward raking hand spear to your attacker's eyes. Immediately follow that with a right inward raking hand spear. This left hand will grab your attacker's right arm and frictionally pull them down.

    6. Pivot back into the left forward bow as your left hand checks and pins your attacker's right arm and your arm executes a right inward handsword on an upward diagonal plane to your attacker's chin.

    7. Cross out towards 6 o'clock.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    I'm starting to get Doc's point about the commercial system here.
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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael151 View Post
    I'm starting to get Doc's point about the commercial system here.
    Meaning?
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael151 View Post
    I'm starting to get Doc's point about the commercial system here.
    Funny, so am I...

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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    Flashing Wings (Front- Right Step-Through Punch)
    1. An attacker from 12 o'clock comes at you with a right step-through punch.

    2. Step towards 12 o'clock with your left foot in a left neutral bow as you execute a left inward block.

    3. Shift into a forward bow as you execute a right inward elbow strike to your attacker's ribs.

    4. Shift back into the left neutral bow as you execute a right outward elbow strike to your attacker's ribs.

    5. Execute a right outward raking hand spear to your attacker's eyes. Immediately follow that with a right inward raking hand spear. This left hand will grab your attacker's right arm and frictionally pull them down.

    6. Pivot back into the left forward bow as your left hand checks and pins your attacker's right arm and your arm executes a right inward handsword on an upward diagonal plane to your attacker's chin.

    7. Cross out towards 6 o'clock.
    The version that I was taught(just recently, as a matter of fact) is very different from this...
    Step One and Two are identical..
    In Step Three we do a small push-drag into a close kneel(with a pressing check on the lead leg) coupled with the glancing inward elbow...
    Step Four involves a left outward claw to the face coupled with the right outward elbow to the shoulder joint utilizing a ripping motion...
    Step Five involves a pivot to 4:30, a right outward chop to the neck(as an insert) which travels down the arm to grab at the wrist...This is coupled with another small push drag(again with a pressing check to leg) and the hammering handsword to the base of the skull(when we reach the end of the push drag)
    Step Six begins by replacing the right hand with the left, and pivoting into a wide kneel with the lifting heel palm/handsword...
    Our crossout goes to 4:30ish...
    It's a big movement, and the leg work is strongly emphasized throughout the tech...

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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Not seen / experienced this version personally, but here's my technique on the write-up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    2. Step towards 12 o'clock with your left foot in a left neutral bow as you execute a left inward block.
    Not convinced that stepping directly into a punch is a smart thing to do. At least off-angle and 'slip' the punch. By stepping to 12, the defender will crash into the attacker's lead leg as the attacker steps forward with the punch, and by the time the block has completed it's arc the punch will already have found it's target.

    Better to step back and block in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    4. Shift back into the left neutral bow as you execute a right outward elbow strike to your attacker's ribs.
    Hitting the same target twice? The first rib-shot will have caused a reaction in the attacker - his arm will retract against his body, are the ribs going to be available as a target anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    5. Execute a right outward raking hand spear to your attacker's eyes. Immediately follow that with a right inward raking hand spear. This left hand will grab your attacker's right arm and frictionally pull them down.
    After blinding the attacker (and assuming there's no CCTV to convict you of this crime), I don't believe it will be possible to pull the attacker's arms down. They will be tightly held against his face in reaction to being blinded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    6. Pivot back into the left forward bow as your left hand checks and pins your attacker's right arm and your arm executes a right inward handsword on an upward diagonal plane to your attacker's chin.
    inward handsword on an upward plane doesn't sound very effective/plausible to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    7. Cross out towards 6 o'clock.
    I doubt the technique will have gotten this far.

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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Hmmm.

    My take on this one is different too. First of all, in response to what someone else said, there is only one rib strike.

    Step to 11, not twelve and do a left inward block.
    The block becomes a check as you push-drag into the right elbow shot to the ribs.

    I have seen the eye/face grab, but I don't usually do it.

    The elbow show passes through to a right elbow under the scapula in a slightly upward direction causing opponent's head to arch back.

    Right chop, followed by left chop. Left hand pins, right palm-up chop to throat.

    Footwork involves lots of knee checks.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    why the stigma against hitting the same target twice? a good boxer will, are we to fancy for that?

    btw, i agree with amy...

    pete
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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Taken from here. This is closer to how I do this technique.


    3. FLASHING WINGS (front straight right punch) 1. Standing naturally with feet together, step to your left on a 45 degree angle with your left foot (to 11:00), as your left inward blocks on the outside of opponent's right arm and your right arm cocks to your right hip (fist clenched and palm up).
    2. Shift into a left close kneel as you deliver a right inward horizontal elbow strike to opponent's right ribs (with your left hand guarding and employing the bracing angle concept) which follows through and by-passes opponent's ribs.
    3. Shift clockwise into a right wide kneel as you execute a right horizontal outward elbow strike to opponent's right shoulder blade (just under it) as you simultaneously execute a left horizontal outward heel of palm claw across opponent's face.
    4. Continue to pivot (facing 5:00) as you deliver a right outward downward hand sword; this fractionally hooks diagonally and down while anchoring your right elbow.
    5. Continue to rotate into a left reverse close kneel, checking the opponent's right leg as you execute a left downward hand sword to the back of opponent's neck.
    6. Rotate counterclockwise into a left wide (close?) kneel as your left hand checks and pins opponent's right arm himself and your right hand strikes with a thrusting heel palm (palm up) to opponent's face or throat.

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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by MJS View Post
    Taken from here. This is closer to how I do this technique.


    3. FLASHING WINGS (front straight right punch) 1. Standing naturally with feet together, step to your left on a 45 degree angle with your left foot (to 11:00), as your left inward blocks on the outside of opponent's right arm and your right arm cocks to your right hip (fist clenched and palm up).
    2. Shift into a left close kneel as you deliver a right inward horizontal elbow strike to opponent's right ribs (with your left hand guarding and employing the bracing angle concept) which follows through and by-passes opponent's ribs.
    3. Shift clockwise into a right wide kneel as you execute a right horizontal outward elbow strike to opponent's right shoulder blade (just under it) as you simultaneously execute a left horizontal outward heel of palm claw across opponent's face.
    4. Continue to pivot (facing 5:00) as you deliver a right outward downward hand sword; this fractionally hooks diagonally and down while anchoring your right elbow.
    5. Continue to rotate into a left reverse close kneel, checking the opponent's right leg as you execute a left downward hand sword to the back of opponent's neck.
    6. Rotate counterclockwise into a left wide (close?) kneel as your left hand checks and pins opponent's right arm himself and your right hand strikes with a thrusting heel palm (palm up) to opponent's face or throat.
    Yes, basically what I said.

    Just like that, but I don't usually do the claw to the face. I often have trouble reaching it. It may be a girl thing -- stuff in the way.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    I often have trouble reaching it. It may be a girl thing -- stuff in the way.

    --Amy[/quote]
    Boxes?
    Old Clothes?
    Table and Chair?

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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    1. I step off angle also
    2. Left inward parry with a right glancing elbow
    3. Right outward elbow to ribs used as a fulcrum point to a handsword to the neck
    4. Left handsword also to the neck
    5. Right horizontal palm / claw to the face
    6. Right over left cross out (sweep if there)

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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Both of these write ups look a little weird to me. I can see portions of the technique, as I execute it, but then some other stuff doesn't make sense.

    This technique fits in with Sleeper, and Thundering Hammers, in that they share the same base move: step off line with your left, while executing a left inward block to the outside of the attackers right punch. The difference between Flashing Wings and the others, is that our right hand is not 'dead'. Instead, or right hand is in the ready position, in our middle zone. From that point of origin, we use the step-drag to flash an inward elbow through the bad guys ribs. With this step drag manuever, we actually move behind the attacker.

    What happens with our left hand during this step drag manuever is important. I want to keep the attackers right arm checked as long as I can, as I move toward 12 O'clock and behind the attacker. As I move forward, my left inward block (which is on or above his elbow - I hope), must stay on his arm, until my body (which is moving forward) reaches my arm. --- My arm is stationary, my body is moving forward. I close the depth of the inward block by moving my body. ---- At some point, that forward momentum is going to intercept my arm, and I will either need to cease the forward movement, or move my arm.

    Some write ups include the left hand outward claw to the bad guys face at this point. I would probably not include it in a write up, but mention that it is an insert that is acceptable, if it doesn't cost us the technique. But, for me, I think the outward left heel palm claw would cost us the technique. I need to get behind the bad guy. And I don't want to take my hand away from his right punch, until the very last moment.

    As I complete that step drag manuever, I want to be behind the bad guy a short amount, in a left neutral bow, with my arms hugging myself ~ like all of the crane techniques.

    I am going to pivot back toward 6 O'clock (actually more like 4:30 - because that is where the bad guy is). With this pivot, I am going to move both arms in an outward motion; my right throws a horizontal outward elbow, my left hand cocks, palm up, almost as a waiters' check (recall, we never cock as a separate move). The target for my right elbow is the spine ~ dead center on the spine, between the shoulder blads. (Some mentioned just below the right shoulder blade, and I could agree with that ~ I just find the spine strike WAY more nasty - and it pops his head up.)

    Now that my direction has changed, I use a push drag foot manuever to get back in front of the bad guy. With this motion, I extend my right hand, to an outward handsword to the base of the skull. This is kind of a dope slap move. And my right hand continues over the head, and cocks to the inside of my right knee. My left hand was cocked in that waiters' check postion, and that comes in on a horizontal line for a palm up strike to the base of the head / mastoid. (Hey, here we are striking the same target twice in a row ~ imagine that). Both of these strikes are very minor, minor strikes. Be certain to follow that left hand through, and grasp the attackers right arm. What is most important here, is that my push drag has moved me forward of the attacker.

    The last move requires a pivot foot manuever. With the pivot, my right hand (which is on the inside of my right knee), launches on an upward diagonal inward handsword to the aggressor's throat. (This handsword is travelling on the same line as the handsword in Delayed Sword, but in the opposite direction.)



    Of course, there are several techniques throughout the system with the same footwork - step drag / push drag / pivot. In this technique, we are in front, behind, in front. I bet we could find the same foot work, where we are behind, in front, behind, if we looked.

    One last thought ~ I like that this technique brings us much closer to the bad guy. Our elbow strikes are our shortest range weapons. In order to utilize them well, we must be tight to our attacker. We have seen this when the bad guy chooses to be close to us ~ Twirling Wings, for instance. But here, we move to the attacker. This lesson on 'range' intensifies as we progress into the higher techniques.

    Ok ... I've probably said too much. Thanks for listening.

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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward View Post
    Both of these write ups look a little weird to me. I can see portions of the technique, as I execute it, but then some other stuff doesn't make sense.

    This technique fits in with Sleeper, and Thundering Hammers, in that they share the same base move: step off line with your left, while executing a left inward block to the outside of the attackers right punch. The difference between Flashing Wings and the others, is that our right hand is not 'dead'. Instead, or right hand is in the ready position, in our middle zone. From that point of origin, we use the step-drag to flash an inward elbow through the bad guys ribs. With this step drag manuever, we actually move behind the attacker.

    What happens with our left hand during this step drag manuever is important. I want to keep the attackers right arm checked as long as I can, as I move toward 12 O'clock and behind the attacker. As I move forward, my left inward block (which is on or above his elbow - I hope), must stay on his arm, until my body (which is moving forward) reaches my arm. --- My arm is stationary, my body is moving forward. I close the depth of the inward block by moving my body. ---- At some point, that forward momentum is going to intercept my arm, and I will either need to cease the forward movement, or move my arm.

    Some write ups include the left hand outward claw to the bad guys face at this point. I would probably not include it in a write up, but mention that it is an insert that is acceptable, if it doesn't cost us the technique. But, for me, I think the outward left heel palm claw would cost us the technique. I need to get behind the bad guy. And I don't want to take my hand away from his right punch, until the very last moment.

    As I complete that step drag manuever, I want to be behind the bad guy a short amount, in a left neutral bow, with my arms hugging myself ~ like all of the crane techniques.

    I am going to pivot back toward 6 O'clock (actually more like 4:30 - because that is where the bad guy is). With this pivot, I am going to move both arms in an outward motion; my right throws a horizontal outward elbow, my left hand cocks, palm up, almost as a waiters' check (recall, we never cock as a separate move). The target for my right elbow is the spine ~ dead center on the spine, between the shoulder blads. (Some mentioned just below the right shoulder blade, and I could agree with that ~ I just find the spine strike WAY more nasty - and it pops his head up.)

    Now that my direction has changed, I use a push drag foot manuever to get back in front of the bad guy. With this motion, I extend my right hand, to an outward handsword to the base of the skull. This is kind of a dope slap move. And my right hand continues over the head, and cocks to the inside of my right knee. My left hand was cocked in that waiters' check postion, and that comes in on a horizontal line for a palm up strike to the base of the head / mastoid. (Hey, here we are striking the same target twice in a row ~ imagine that). Both of these strikes are very minor, minor strikes. Be certain to follow that left hand through, and grasp the attackers right arm. What is most important here, is that my push drag has moved me forward of the attacker.

    The last move requires a pivot foot manuever. With the pivot, my right hand (which is on the inside of my right knee), launches on an upward diagonal inward handsword to the aggressor's throat. (This handsword is travelling on the same line as the handsword in Delayed Sword, but in the opposite direction.)



    Of course, there are several techniques throughout the system with the same footwork - step drag / push drag / pivot. In this technique, we are in front, behind, in front. I bet we could find the same foot work, where we are behind, in front, behind, if we looked.

    One last thought ~ I like that this technique brings us much closer to the bad guy. Our elbow strikes are our shortest range weapons. In order to utilize them well, we must be tight to our attacker. We have seen this when the bad guy chooses to be close to us ~ Twirling Wings, for instance. But here, we move to the attacker. This lesson on 'range' intensifies as we progress into the higher techniques.

    Ok ... I've probably said too much. Thanks for listening.
    That's exactly what we do...
    I'm sorry if I'm a little vague with descriptions...It's still tough for me to type out in detail what's in my head...Only a purple belt, you know...

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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by Black St1300 View Post
    Boxes?
    Old Clothes?
    Table and Chair?
    Ah, you've been to my house, I see. Yes, that's exactly what I meant. lol.

    --Amy
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    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    why the stigma against hitting the same target twice? a good boxer will, are we to fancy for that?
    did you read my post? I asked a specific question regarding the availability of the ribs as a target after striking them the first time, what are your thoughts on that?

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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    Meaning?
    It looks like a lot of my concerns have been covered. But, what really struck me at first was that in the initial tech write up, we would go to 12, when they are attacking from 12. I like the idea of stepping off to 10:30 or 11 better. Also,I think a parry is the best one can get if moving and blocking at the same time.
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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Re: Hitting the same target twice.

    I don't do that in this tech. I use an inward elbow, travel thru the target (the front false ribs), use reverse motion i.e. outward elbow to the back of the ribs or kidney. Whatever target is available.
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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    How about the inward elbow going IN and UP on the 10:30/4:30 vertical (and horizontal) diagonal?

    How about the outward elbow travelling in reverse motion to slam down, diagonally, on the right kidney?

    Of course with body rotation on both?

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    Default Re: September 2007 EPAK technique of the Month - Flashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael151 View Post
    Re: Hitting the same target twice.

    I don't do that in this tech. I use an inward elbow, travel thru the target (the front false ribs), use reverse motion i.e. outward elbow to the back of the ribs or kidney. Whatever target is available.
    yes, I imagine that's what most do on this technique to make it work. I asked the question because the write-up is so vague - it doesn't say where to hit, and only gives a general target of "ribs" for both strikes. It implies that it's the same target but in reality it cannot be.

    My comment was more to support your own actually - the technique write-up gives no details on how to perform the technique, only vague ideas. The write-up needs to be more specific in order to be useful to anybody.

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