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Thread: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

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    Default May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Crashing Wings (Rear- Bear Hug; Arms Free)
    1. An attacker at 6 o'clock grabs you in a bear hug leaving your arms free.

    2. Step your right foot to 3 o'clock into a horse stance facing 12 o'clock as you execute right and left outward overhead elbows down on top of your attacker's elbow joints to break the grab.

    3. Step your left foot to 3 o'clock into a transitional cat stance as your right and left hands cock at your right hip. (This is done with left hand vertical, right hand beneath palm up.)

    4. Circle your left foot behind your attacker's right leg into a left reverse bow.

    5. Pivot into a left neutral bow towards 7:30 as you execute a left outward elbow to your attacker's face.

    6. Continue to pivot into a left neutral bow facing 7:30 as you execute a right inward downward hammerfist to your attacker's bladder / groin area.

    7. Pivot back into a left neutral bow, causing them to crash to the ground and cross out towards 12 o'clock.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate View Post
    Crashing Wings (Rear- Bear Hug; Arms Free)
    1. An attacker at 6 o'clock grabs you in a bear hug leaving your arms free.

    2. Step your right foot to 3 o'clock into a horse stance facing 12 o'clock as you execute right and left outward overhead elbows down on top of your attacker's elbow joints to break the grab.

    3. Step your left foot to 3 o'clock into a transitional cat stance as your right and left hands cock at your right hip. (This is done with left hand vertical, right hand beneath palm up.)

    4. Circle your left foot behind your attacker's right leg into a left reverse bow.

    5. Pivot into a left neutral bow towards 7:30 as you execute a left outward elbow to your attacker's face.

    6. Continue to pivot into a left neutral bow facing 7:30 as you execute a right inward downward hammerfist to your attacker's bladder / groin area.

    7. Pivot back into a left neutral bow, causing them to crash to the ground and cross out towards 12 o'clock.

    When I was taught this technique, we struck with the elbow in step 5, and then turned it into a pressing check across our opponents shoulders. Then, when we struck with the hammerfist in step 6, we struck, and then ground against the testicles with the fist. Not all day, just one straight movement across the opponent's groin. Does anyone else practice this technique this way? I always liked the brutality of striking the testicles, and then grinding them like a mortar and pestle. Seems like a fitting punishment for a cowardly rear bear hug.


    -Rob
    "All the time you're arguing over, is this kenpo, is that kenpo, you could be training!"

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate View Post
    2. Step your right foot to 3 o'clock into a horse stance facing 12 o'clock
    With the attacker's arms tight around your body (preventing you from moving), how is it possible to step sideways?

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate View Post
    3. Step your left foot to 3 o'clock into a transitional cat stance as your right and left hands cock at your right hip. (This is done with left hand vertical, right hand beneath palm up.)
    What is the purpose of your hands being arranged this way? What are they doing to assist you in the technique?

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate View Post
    Crashing Wings (Rear- Bear Hug; Arms Free)
    1. An attacker at 6 o'clock grabs you in a bear hug leaving your arms free.

    2. Step your right foot to 3 o'clock into a horse stance facing 12 o'clock as you execute right and left outward overhead elbows down on top of your attacker's elbow joints to break the grab.

    3. Step your left foot to 3 o'clock into a transitional cat stance as your right and left hands cock at your right hip. (This is done with left hand vertical, right hand beneath palm up.)

    4. Circle your left foot behind your attacker's right leg into a left reverse bow.

    5. Pivot into a left neutral bow towards 7:30 as you execute a left outward elbow to your attacker's face.

    6. Continue to pivot into a left neutral bow facing 7:30 as you execute a right inward downward hammerfist to your attacker's bladder / groin area.

    7. Pivot back into a left neutral bow, causing them to crash to the ground and cross out towards 12 o'clock.
    How do you do a downward hammer fist if your fist is cocked at the hip?
    Sean

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesemindz View Post
    When I was taught this technique, we struck with the elbow in step 5, and then turned it into a pressing check across our opponents shoulders. Then, when we struck with the hammerfist in step 6, we struck, and then ground against the testicles with the fist. Not all day, just one straight movement across the opponent's groin. Does anyone else practice this technique this way? I always liked the brutality of striking the testicles, and then grinding them like a mortar and pestle. Seems like a fitting punishment for a cowardly rear bear hug.


    -Rob
    So rear takedowns are cowardly?

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    I just learned this tech about three weeks ago so this is cool that it's a tech of the month. I'd like describe the way I understand this tech to work.

    When we do the double elbows to break the hold, it's also done with a "grinding" motion, meaning we strike at about the opponent's wrists or hands and then grind the elbows down to aid in breaking the hold. The wrists are then trapped by our arms as we chamber them to the side in the horse stance. With the loosed grip and the wrists trapped under our arms, this also loosens the attacker's arms around our waist, so that we can then perform the step around. Obviously if the arms were still tight around the waist, we could not do this.

    We then do the left-over-right hand arrangement because this a) keeps the attacker's wrists fused until the last second, and b)sets us up for the elbow and hammerfist strikes. When the steparound into the reverse stance is complete, we switch to neutral bow and unleash the left elbow, at the same time chambering the right fist high for the following downward hammerfist to the groin. This means letting go of the wrists, but keeping the wrists trapped at that point isn't important anymore since we have the opponent where we want.

    As far as the quick "grounding" motion of the fist to the groin, we don't do that, but that's a great idea... I'll have to bring that up in tonight's class!
    "Your kung fu's no good..."
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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate View Post
    2. Step your right foot to 3 o'clock into a horse stance facing 12 o'clock as you execute right and left outward overhead elbows down on top of your attacker's elbow joints to break the grab.

    3. Step your left foot to 3 o'clock into a transitional cat stance as your right and left hands cock at your right hip. (This is done with left hand vertical, right hand beneath palm up.)

    4. Circle your left foot behind your attacker's right leg into a left reverse bow.

    5. Pivot into a left neutral bow towards 7:30 as you execute a left outward elbow to your attacker's face.

    6. Continue to pivot into a left neutral bow facing 7:30 as you execute a right inward downward hammerfist to your attacker's bladder / groin area.

    7. Pivot back into a left neutral bow, causing them to crash to the ground and cross out towards 12 o'clock.
    In Step 2 ... we drive our elbows into the aggressor's forearms. I don't like the description of 'outward'; we do it more of an 'inward downward' direction.

    In Step 3 ... when you cat, you cock. We are loading for our left diagonal upward outward elbow. We cock our weapons fist to fist, left on top of right. Certianly, no open palms.

    In Step 4 ... just a minor comment, my left leg needs to be tight to his right leg. I am creating a fulcrum point.

    In Step 5 ... the outward elbow must travel on an upward diagonal line. I am attempting to stretch out the aggressor's body, and move his body weight over the fulcrum point created in Step 4. As I execute this upward diagonal strike with my elbow, I simultaneously raise my right hand, cocking it above my right shoulder - in preparation of Step 6.

    In Step 6 ... we pivot into a forward bow (I'm sure the notation meant this), as we drive the hammerfist on a downward diagonal trajectory into the bladder. The aggressor should already be falling over my thigh. This shot just assists with that downward direction.

    In Step 7 ... off the top of my head, I see no reason to pivot back to a neutral bow. But I have never seen this instruction before. The aggressor is on his backside by this point, regardless of whether I pivot back or not. Someone else may have some insight on this instruction.


    Last thought on this ... the elbow must be upward diagonal and the hammerfist must be downward diagonal ... making an X.

    Mike

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    With the attacker's arms tight around your body (preventing you from moving), how is it possible to step sideways?
    James, this tech presumes the ability to move in width. You may even be forced to move in width- either way, that is what the attacker gives you as the catalyst for Crashing Wings. Just like Twisted Twig for the same attack presumes an ability to move in depth.

    What is the purpose of your hands being arranged this way (stacked)? What are they doing to assist you in the technique?
    Clears them so you step behind unimpeded, gives directional harmony instead of stationary discord, and most importantly is part of the PNF sequencing that sets up the next strike(s).

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    How do you do a downward hammer fist if your fist is cocked at the hip?
    It arcs out and up just enough to get the proper angle of incidence to the strike, then comes in and down. This also aids the timeing of the two strikes so that the elbow knocks his head back and gets his body bent over your left knee and really stretched out, then the hammerfist lands a half beat behind when it will be most effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesemindz View Post
    ..., we struck with the elbow in step 5, and then turned it into a pressing check across our opponents shoulders. Then, when we struck with the hammerfist in step 6, we struck, and then ground against the testicles with the fist... Does anyone else practice this technique this way? I always liked the brutality of striking the testicles, ...
    If I want to really hurt him, why would I just hit his testicles when I could rupture his bladder? Also seems you'd have to over-reach a little. Interesting variation, though.

    Stretching someone out like this brings the organs closer to the surface, while at the same time weakening the muscles that protect those organs and taking away any "give", so that the organs are really exposed to be dammaged (if you choose to hit that hard).

    Dan C
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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward View Post
    In Step 2 ... we drive our elbows into the aggressor's forearms. I don't like the description of 'outward'; we do it more of an 'inward downward' direction.

    In Step 4 ... just a minor comment, my left leg needs to be tight to his right leg. I am creating a fulcrum point.

    Mike
    Agree on both of those points. We drive our elbows into the radial nerves on the forearms which should cause our attacker to break his grip.

    Also, when we step behind our leg goes behind his leg in order to buckle his knee. When we strike with the elbow, our attacker is falling backwards over our leg.

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    What do you all do when you are unable to break the initial hold with the downward elbows?

    In my class there's one guy who has a super-strong grip when he applies the bear hug, and we are taught a cheat move to use in those situations. We rapidly tap hard on the soft areas between their knuckles with our own knuckles (like knocking on a door hard and fast with both hands). The sudden jolts of pain the opponent is feeling will cause him to release his grip, and then we can pin his wrists and continue with the tech.

    Does anyone else do something similar to this, or perhaps have another idea they use against people with strong grips?
    "Your kung fu's no good..."
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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by domino3700 View Post
    What do you all do when you are unable to break the initial hold with the downward elbows?

    In my class there's one guy who has a super-strong grip when he applies the bear hug, and we are taught a cheat move to use in those situations. We rapidly tap hard on the soft areas between their knuckles with our own knuckles (like knocking on a door hard and fast with both hands). The sudden jolts of pain the opponent is feeling will cause him to release his grip, and then we can pin his wrists and continue with the tech.

    Does anyone else do something similar to this, or perhaps have another idea they use against people with strong grips?

    Head butt works wonders

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    domino3700, at our schoool, that move is introduced with the technique Spiraling Twig. I think we see it again in Squatting Sacrifice.

    You certainly can use it as a insert in Crashing Wings. But, we would need to be cautious because it forces our elbows (wings) away from the opponents' arms.


    One of the challenges we all face in class, is that we all know the techniques. Sometimes, to prove how tough we are, we don't react appropriately to a strike. When your training partner doesn't loosen his grip, I would suggest he is not reacting realistically. This certainly doesn't help your training.

    I was at a seminar, working on Grasp of Death. My opponent was not going to allow the pinch move to cause him to react. He was going to show me how tough he was. I ended up having to use a vertical ridge hand to the groin to get him to move (he moved then). As we talked about the technique, and how I modified it, I pointed out that the pinch would most likely cause someone to loosen his base. I demonstrated by touching behind his left thigh with my index finger, unexpectedly. I didn't even pinch. My training partner reacted; lifting his left leg. That was realistic, because it was unexpected.

    "Kenpo works because of Pain, and Realistic Position and Reaction."

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by domino3700 View Post
    We rapidly tap hard on the soft areas between their knuckles with our own knuckles (like knocking on a door hard and fast with both hands). The sudden jolts of pain the opponent is feeling will cause him to release his grip, and then we can pin his wrists and continue with the tech.

    Does anyone else do something similar to this, or perhaps have another idea they use against people with strong grips?
    We teach the technique with the raps to the back of the hands as standard practise. This is our step 1 before we even move our feet.

    Remember too, that even though the guy in your school has a strong grip, you probably aren't hitting him as hard in the school as you would if you were really executing the technique. If he won't let go, make him.

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by domino3700 View Post
    What do you all do when you are unable to break the initial hold with the downward elbows?

    In my class there's one guy who has a super-strong grip when he applies the bear hug, and we are taught a cheat move to use in those situations. We rapidly tap hard on the soft areas between their knuckles with our own knuckles (like knocking on a door hard and fast with both hands). The sudden jolts of pain the opponent is feeling will cause him to release his grip, and then we can pin his wrists and continue with the tech.

    Does anyone else do something similar to this, or perhaps have another idea they use against people with strong grips?

    I teach, that it really doesn't make any difference if the opponent lets go, or doesn't. (I relish finding the biggest, strongest galoot to demonstrate on at every opportunity...not hard, as I am invariably the smallest one in most classes) The key is in proper foot movement/placement, keeping your opponents hips close to yours, maintaining good posture - (This keeps his weight off of you), sinking your weight to stabilize your base and adhering to proper bows. The Mystery move of chambering right hand to hip and left on top? The right arm reaches around and behind your opponent's elbow, pinning it securely to your body, the left aids in cinching this pin. All of these things done in concert, completely disrupts your opponent's balance. If this is where the focus is, then all of the strikes become incidental (although o-so enjoyable) to the escape and takedown of the opponent.
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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by domino3700 View Post
    What do you all do when you are unable to break the initial hold with the downward elbows?

    In my class there's one guy who has a super-strong grip when he applies the bear hug, and we are taught a cheat move to use in those situations. We rapidly tap hard on the soft areas between their knuckles with our own knuckles (like knocking on a door hard and fast with both hands). The sudden jolts of pain the opponent is feeling will cause him to release his grip, and then we can pin his wrists and continue with the tech.

    Does anyone else do something similar to this, or perhaps have another idea they use against people with strong grips?
    on the back of the hand, between the bones aligned with the ring finger and pinky finger, about 4/5 of the way to the knuckle from the wrist, is a very sensitive spot that you can target with this same strike. TW-3 in this image...


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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    on the back of the hand, between the bones aligned with the ring finger and pinky finger, about 4/5 of the way to the knuckle from the wrist, is a very sensitive spot that you can target with this same strike. TW-3 in this image...

    On this same vein; when you bring your elbows down onto your attackers arms if you can hit LI-10 or LI-11 it will increase the pain factor making the strikes more effective at releasing the arms.

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    LI-10 for sure, it is just below the elbow joint. Also, if you rotate around an inch or so to the inside of the arm from LI-10 you find Lung 5. In the normal configuration of the arm when grabbing somehting in fornt of you at chest height, LI-10 is kindof on the outside of the arm and LU-5 is on top. So that elbow is best aimed at Lu-5, which also will stun the arm and often induces the same-side leg to collapse.

    Depending in the technique you may have rotated the arm so that LI-10 is available...

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    LI-10 for sure, it is just below the elbow joint. Also, if you rotate around an inch or so to the inside of the arm from LI-10 you find Lung 5. In the normal configuration of the arm when grabbing somehting in fornt of you at chest height, LI-10 is kindof on the outside of the arm and LU-5 is on top. So that elbow is best aimed at Lu-5, which also will stun the arm and often induces the same-side leg to collapse.

    Depending in the technique you may have rotated the arm so that LI-10 is available...
    When I wrote my comment I was trying to visualize the arm position and I thought that LI-10 was more accessible. Now you got me thinking and I'm going to have to try this one out on a few people and see where I'm actually hitting them

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    When I wrote my comment I was trying to visualize the arm position and I thought that LI-10 was more accessible. Now you got me thinking and I'm going to have to try this one out on a few people and see where I'm actually hitting them

    depending on the weapon used and arm position, it can be both or either. Also with a broad enough weapon you can get the pericardium point at the end of the bicep if the arm is bent. So many ways to do it... have fun, be nice to your partner LOL

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    Default Re: May 2007 - Technique of the Month - Crashing Wings

    Quote Originally Posted by hongkongfooey View Post
    Head butt works wonders
    Good point, I'm usually so focused on the break that I haven't thought of that. I'll keep that in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward View Post
    You certainly can use it as a insert in Crashing Wings. But, we would need to be cautious because it forces our elbows (wings) away from the opponents' arms.

    One of the challenges we all face in class, is that we all know the techniques. Sometimes, to prove how tough we are, we don't react appropriately to a strike. When your training partner doesn't loosen his grip, I would suggest he is not reacting realistically. This certainly doesn't help your training.
    This definitely makes sense, in a real world situation most opponents probably won't expect what's coming and will react accordingly. However I'm not sure that I agree that a partner is not helping if they purposely don't react the way they should; instead I would think that this would help strengthen the technique and also present some "what if" scenarios to think about. But then of course I'd want them to be cooperative during testing!

    I'll keep your advice in mind about keeping the "wings" close to the opponent's arms during the taps... thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    Remember too, that even though the guy in your school has a strong grip, you probably aren't hitting him as hard in the school as you would if you were really executing the technique. If he won't let go, make him.
    Good point as well. I'm the biggest guy in my class so I've sometimes caught myself pulling punches. Although with Crashing Wings, I do try to both hit hard and then grind down hard. Perhaps more training is in order for me to strengthen that move.

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    I teach, that it really doesn't make any difference if the opponent lets go, or doesn't. (I relish finding the biggest, strongest galoot to demonstrate on at every opportunity...not hard, as I am invariably the smallest one in most classes) The key is in proper foot movement/placement, keeping your opponents hips close to yours, maintaining good posture - (This keeps his weight off of you), sinking your weight to stabilize your base and adhering to proper bows. The Mystery move of chambering right hand to hip and left on top? The right arm reaches around and behind your opponent's elbow, pinning it securely to your body, the left aids in cinching this pin. All of these things done in concert, completely disrupts your opponent's balance. If this is where the focus is, then all of the strikes become incidental (although o-so enjoyable) to the escape and takedown of the opponent.
    Good analysis... I guess I've drilled it in my head that I MUST break the hold, but sometimes if I'm unable to break it, I move forward with the technique anyway, and it still works fine, in part because I have good stances and footwork. Thank you for helping me feel better about this "cheat", hahaha.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    on the back of the hand, between the bones aligned with the ring finger and pinky finger, about 4/5 of the way to the knuckle from the wrist, is a very sensitive spot that you can target with this same strike. TW-3 in this image...

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    On this same vein; when you bring your elbows down onto your attackers arms if you can hit LI-10 or LI-11 it will increase the pain factor making the strikes more effective at releasing the arms.
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    LI-10 for sure, it is just below the elbow joint. Also, if you rotate around an inch or so to the inside of the arm from LI-10 you find Lung 5. In the normal configuration of the arm when grabbing somehting in fornt of you at chest height, LI-10 is kindof on the outside of the arm and LU-5 is on top. So that elbow is best aimed at Lu-5, which also will stun the arm and often induces the same-side leg to collapse.

    Depending in the technique you may have rotated the arm so that LI-10 is available...
    These analyses using the graphic are all very helpful. When doing the tapping, we usually go for LI-3 or LI-4, or even the soft spots between the knuckles including TW-3.

    As far as the forearm targets, I've been taught to go for LI-5, which seems to work great but is somewhat hard for me to reach because I have a wide upper torso. Kinda hard to get the elbows close together, but I manage. LI-10 seems like a great spot to hit, although there wouldn't be much forearm to grind hitting that high up. I suppose if the initial strike does the trick, there would be no need to grind. The good news is, you guys have given me many more targets to think about!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Well after waiting 3 weeks for a response on my question, you all have definitely given me a wealth of knowledge to digest and try out next time I'm in class. Testing is coming up for me probably in the next month or two so I'm definitely analyzing and disecting all my techs in preparation. Thanks for all your help on this.
    "Your kung fu's no good..."
    *Warrior, Scholar*

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