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Thread: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

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    Default December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    Triggered Salute (Front- Right Hand Direct Push)

    1. An attacker at 12 o'clock pushes your left shoulder with their right hand.

    2. Immediately and simultaneously turn your body counterclockwise, thus riding the force of the push and using your attacker's force, borrowed force. As you do this, step your right foot into a right neutral bow facing 12 o'clock as you pin their right hand with your left and simultaneously execute a right palm strike to your attacker's chin.

    3. Frictionally slide your right arm down your attacker's right arm, making the shape of a crane with your hand.

    4. Immediately execute a right inward elbow to your attacker's right solar plexus.

    5. Follow through and execute a right outward elbow strike to your floating ribs.

    6. Using residual torque, follow through with a right backfist to your attacker's floating ribs or kidney. Follow through and cock your right hand at your right hip.

    7. Execute a right vertical back knuckle strike to your attacker's chin.

    8. Cross out towards 7:30.
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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    5. Follow through and execute a right outward elbow strike to your floating ribs.
    Ouch!

    I hate it when I hit myself

    The one note I would add to this write up, is that the stance is a 'Right Neutral Bow' throughout the entire technique. Proper body mechanics dictates that with the inward and outward strikes, you torque your torso to add force. "Trunk Rotation" is how it was explained to me.

    Someone else has called this "Less Good Kenpo" ... because all of the offense is with one hand. When we add in the other hand, and then the feet ... Yowza! Yowza! Yowza!.

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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    One of the better techniques IMHO. During the initial strike I let my right hand float up and under the jaw line of the attacker. It's more of a "rising" palm heel strike, but it is more of a natural response and by doing so I can better utilize the "borrowed force" so graciously provided by my attacker!
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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    This is one of my favorites too.

    The thing that is a little unrealistic to me is to step forward. It's not remotely natural. I can see the benefits, etc, but the move works just as well stepping back.

    This is true especially if your left-handed pin is locked in correctly.

    A lot of people just cover the attacker's hand with their own. This makes it fairly easy for someone to pull their hand out, which may be the reaction if they get palmed in the chin.

    If you pin with your palm facing the opponent, using the inside wrist of your left hand against the same joint on the attacker's right hand, it's difficult to pull out of it. Plus, with your hand poised in what is essentially a positional check, you are more ready to use it.

    --Amy
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    JamesB is offline
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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    The thing that is a little unrealistic to me is to step forward. It's not remotely natural. I can see the benefits, etc, but the move works just as well stepping back.
    You've got my agreement there. It is not possible to step forwards when someone has pushed your shoulder (even the opposite shoulder). The only way to perform the technique as written is to step forwards before the 'push' makes contact. I'm sure I've seen Doc write about this before - but the 'attack' in this case is an 'anticipated push'.

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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    You've got my agreement there. It is not possible to step forwards when someone has pushed your shoulder (even the opposite shoulder). The only way to perform the technique as written is to step forwards before the 'push' makes contact. I'm sure I've seen Doc write about this before - but the 'attack' in this case is an 'anticipated push'.
    If it's an anticipated push, it seems you wouldn't be pinning the attacker's hand. You'd do something more like Alternating Maces or something else where a block happens, rather than a pin.

    --Amy
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    execkenpo is offline
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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    This is one of my favorites too.

    The thing that is a little unrealistic to me is to step forward. It's not remotely natural. I can see the benefits, etc, but the move works just as well stepping back.

    This is true especially if your left-handed pin is locked in correctly.

    A lot of people just cover the attacker's hand with their own. This makes it fairly easy for someone to pull their hand out, which may be the reaction if they get palmed in the chin.

    If you pin with your palm facing the opponent, using the inside wrist of your left hand against the same joint on the attacker's right hand, it's difficult to pull out of it. Plus, with your hand poised in what is essentially a positional check, you are more ready to use it.

    --Amy
    I've never seen the pin done this way before....I'm intrigued and will have to try it out at my next class.

    As for the argument regarding stepping forward or back, it was explained to me that this defence was to deal with the attack when you cannot retreat 0back against a wall?) and the principle being used was 'matching force' I believe. I do admit that I really like stepping in and using my opponents forward momentum against him

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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    I've never seen the pin done this way before....I'm intrigued and will have to try it out at my next class.

    As for the argument regarding stepping forward or back, it was explained to me that this defence was to deal with the attack when you cannot retreat --back against a wall?) and the principle being used was 'matching force' I believe. I do admit that I really like stepping in and using my opponents forward momentum against him
    If you are against a wall, then sure, but otherwise, it's fun, but it's not a natural way to respond.

    The pin is really effective. I wish you lived closer and I'd show you.

    --Amy
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    execkenpo is offline
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    Smile Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    If you are against a wall, then sure, but otherwise, it's fun, but it's not a natural way to respond.

    The pin is really effective. I wish you lived closer and I'd show you.

    --Amy

    I would welcome the lesson . I am considering going to the Internationals next summer as I will be in Chicago in early August so I figure I may as well drive further south. If I do I just might pop by.

    I hear what you say about the unnateral feeling....I wonder if this is because so much of what we do begins with a retreat...is this conditioning perhaps? Maybe we aren't so far removed from Pavlov's dogs

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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    Amy and James, this tech teaches us to ride the force of the push. I suppose you'd have to anticipate it, at least in the fraction of a second before it lands, in order to be loose, get the pin and yield to the force, rideing it forward. You are rotating around the axis of your center line, useing the force of his push to enhance your rotation and the force of your strike. Pivot on the ball of the left foot and step out with the right as you sink your weight and you will go forward. At least, I do. And I've done it under hard force.

    So, you guys train this steping back? Doesn't that overextend your right arm, possibly setting you up for a trap or deflection?

    Dan C
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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    I could see stepping foward if you expected the push-like someone who keeps pushing trying to antagonize you . Sure, we wouldn't like it to get that far but it happens. We could step back, or split our step as well. Also, as long as we're doing "one hand kenpo" we could add a knee check. Even better, we could insert a right hammerfist after the initial palm heel using our body for recoil. That would set up the elbow nicely.
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    SifuDangeRuss is offline
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    Lightbulb Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    We teach this stepping backwards initially, too. However, we also bait the trap. Most of this type of attack, is a confidence/machismo builder. The attacker shoves...so we ride the force straight back out of range the first time. Perhaps he's proved himself tough enough and doesn't need to proceed. Game over. Or, he decides that was so successful, he pushes again, committing moreso, this is when we pull the trigger, stepping back, pinning his hand and pulling him into the palm strike. We use the initial push to help "trigger" the real attack.
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    Billy Lear is offline
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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    I think the pin has two functions.

    #1. It prevents your opponent from pulling his hand back nd attacking you with it again. (Like Amy says.)

    #2. It also checks your opponent's hand so you don't get hit in the face (or eye) by an incidental strike after hitting him/her in the face with the heel palm strike.

    As for stepping forward or reverse... I like stepping forward and borrowing my opponent's force to supplement my body rotation/strike. It might not feel natural to most people, but that's the reason why we train. (It's not natural for people to enter buring buildings, but fire fighters do.)

    There are several things that have been stated in this thread that have merit. This technique can be used against an unanticipated attack, it can be used if your opponent is shoving you more than once (as Sifu Dangeruss implied), it can be used if your surrounding environment limits backward movement, or if you simply find yourself doing it as a trained reaction to this type of attack. Regardless, the step forward is important because it introduces a few new ideas within the system that should not be overlooked.

    Here's the write-up that I have for the technique:

    1. Standing naturally while your opponent pushes your left shoulder with his right hand, step forward with your right foot into a right neutral bow (between 11:00 and 12:00). In the course of this action, buckle the inside of your opponent's right knee with your right knee. Simultaneously thrust a right heel palm strike to your opponent's chin, "with" a left pinning check of his right hand to your chest. (Your opponent's head should snap back and away from you.)

    2. With the response of your opponent's upper body, frictionally slide your right hand down your opponent's right arm while forming the shape of a crane (anchor elbow) and hook your opponent's right arm down toward 5:30. ROUND THE CORNER with your right arm as you immediately deliver a right inward horizontal elbow strike to your opponent's solar plexus. (The frictional pull will bring your opponent's upper body forward and diagonally to his right. The force of your elbow strike will make him bend forward further.)

    3. After following through with your first elbow shot, deliver a right outward horizontal elbow strike to your opponent's right floating ribs. (This should cause your opponent to bend forward further.)

    4. Using RESIDUAL TORQUE, follow-up with a right outward horizontal back knuckle strike to your opponent's right floating ribs or kidney and immediately cock your right fist to your right hip. (You are now magnifying the damage to his ribs.)

    5. Without any loss of motion thrust a right vertical back knuckle strike (right fist is inverted and horizontal) up and under your opponent's chin while your left hand continues to pin your opponent's right hand against your left shoulder. (This Contouring Fit should drive your opponent's head back.)

    6. Right front crossover, covering out toward 7:30.

    I don't think this technique is a one-handed technique. If it weren't for your left hand pinning your opponent's right hand you wouldn't be in control of your opponent's height, width, and depth zones. The pin (coupled with your strikes) limits his ability to retaliate with his other natural weapons. The value of the knee check should not be overlooked either.

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    Thumbs up Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    This is an example where a Sam Pai technique is virtually identical in form and function to the AK technique. The only thing we add, is following the right vertical back knuckle's retraction, we reverse the right hand into a positive pushing check into the opponents right shoulder, to pre-empt any potential counter strike as we exit. This pushes the opponents shoulder and right foot back and away, as we cross out.
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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    I agree with Billy that I don't think of this as a one-handed technique. The left hand isn't moving around, but it's still useful and if you only had one hand, you couldn't do this technique.

    I agree that this techniques is best training stepping forward to get used to the unnatural motion, but my point was that it works fine going backwards as well, especially if you get that pin/lock right. You will pull the attacker very much off balance.

    I had originally learned the last strike as going to the gut, but the chin works much better.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    Greetings!

    Some things I will comment on have already been mentioned, yet I reiterate and expand with my view.

    As said before, this should be a defense against a series of short "intimidation" "getting in your face" type pushes that after one or two can be anticipated.

    If you're pushed and try to go forward, the push is absorbed by the base leg (the one on the floor) while the other steps forward.

    Try it against a hard sharp push, that is not fully commited (as intimidation type push), and after the push gets you, do the technique.

    Now use the scenario that someone is pushing in "provocation/intimidation" type pushes and verbal assault. There you can center and anticipate the push.

    I would think that a good salute would be normally more than enough to end the threat.

    The crane beak shoulder twist can easily be turned into a shoulder lock and/or takedown for further control.

    After the first elbow, probably the attackers reaction would be to hug you with the left arm, with a good probability of success is you don't make sure you have control of your space and of the attacker's body first.

    Solid stances and stance changes, body maneuvers and foot maneuvers should prevent most discrepances from the technique.

    Just some ideas to play around with. Enjoy!

    Juan M. Mercado

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    Alleydog is offline
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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Lear View Post
    I think the pin has two functions.

    #1. It prevents your opponent from pulling his hand back nd attacking you with it again. (Like Amy says.)

    #2. It also checks your opponent's hand so you don't get hit in the face (or eye) by an incidental strike after hitting him/her in the face with the heel palm strike.

    As for stepping forward or reverse... I like stepping forward and borrowing my opponent's force to supplement my body rotation/strike. It might not feel natural to most people, but that's the reason why we train. (It's not natural for people to enter buring buildings, but fire fighters do.)

    There are several things that have been stated in this thread that have merit. This technique can be used against an unanticipated attack, it can be used if your opponent is shoving you more than once (as Sifu Dangeruss implied), it can be used if your surrounding environment limits backward movement, or if you simply find yourself doing it as a trained reaction to this type of attack. Regardless, the step forward is important because it introduces a few new ideas within the system that should not be overlooked.

    Here's the write-up that I have for the technique:

    1. Standing naturally while your opponent pushes your left shoulder with his right hand, step forward with your right foot into a right neutral bow (between 11:00 and 12:00). In the course of this action, buckle the inside of your opponent's right knee with your right knee. Simultaneously thrust a right heel palm strike to your opponent's chin, "with" a left pinning check of his right hand to your chest. (Your opponent's head should snap back and away from you.)

    2. With the response of your opponent's upper body, frictionally slide your right hand down your opponent's right arm while forming the shape of a crane (anchor elbow) and hook your opponent's right arm down toward 5:30. ROUND THE CORNER with your right arm as you immediately deliver a right inward horizontal elbow strike to your opponent's solar plexus. (The frictional pull will bring your opponent's upper body forward and diagonally to his right. The force of your elbow strike will make him bend forward further.)

    3. After following through with your first elbow shot, deliver a right outward horizontal elbow strike to your opponent's right floating ribs. (This should cause your opponent to bend forward further.)

    4. Using RESIDUAL TORQUE, follow-up with a right outward horizontal back knuckle strike to your opponent's right floating ribs or kidney and immediately cock your right fist to your right hip. (You are now magnifying the damage to his ribs.)

    5. Without any loss of motion thrust a right vertical back knuckle strike (right fist is inverted and horizontal) up and under your opponent's chin while your left hand continues to pin your opponent's right hand against your left shoulder. (This Contouring Fit should drive your opponent's head back.)

    6. Right front crossover, covering out toward 7:30.

    I don't think this technique is a one-handed technique. If it weren't for your left hand pinning your opponent's right hand you wouldn't be in control of your opponent's height, width, and depth zones. The pin (coupled with your strikes) limits his ability to retaliate with his other natural weapons. The value of the knee check should not be overlooked either.
    Billy,

    The pin has another function. It can guide the attacker’s fist (yes, I know it is for a one hand push but the attack can change mid-stream) right to your center line.
    The AKKI does another technique for this attack. In the AKKI technique you still employ borrowed force and step up but the pushing hand is parried and the left hand is engaged to strike as well as the right hand.

    Yours in Kenpo,

    Mike G

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    pete is offline
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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    anybody else train the 'shape of the crane' frictional pull as an inward pull to lock their wrist, elbow and shoulder?

    also how does the 'crane hand' get over there...could your triggered palm heel get block by the opponents left hand and placed there, making the 2nd half of the technique a prime example of ideal-evenif-ideal concept... hmmm...
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    execkenpo is offline
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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    Something we need to keep in mind when it comes to this technique, or any other for that matter. SGM Parker gave us multiple options to use against specific attacks, be it pushes, punches, grabs, etc. Sometimes the differences are to teach us how to deal with a variation on the attack, other times it is to give us different ways to deal move to expand our arsenal. IMHO I beleive triggered salute is one such technique. We can use it when our back is against the wall, but more importantly it teaches us another way to move. As Amy said, it doesn't feel natural to move this way which I think is EXACTLY why we do it like this, to learn how. I love this move, but if I'm moving back I would rather use Snapping Twigs. The extension for Triggered Salute is fun though.

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    Default Re: December 2006 Technique of the Month - Triggered Salute

    Mr. Lear, excellant post on TS. That is exactly how I learned it, except for one minor detail:
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Lear View Post
    4. Using RESIDUAL TORQUE, follow-up with a right outward horizontal back knuckle strike to your opponent's right floating ribs or kidney and immediately cock your right fist to your right hip. (You are now magnifying the damage to his ribs.)
    I don't bring my right fist/arm to full chamber. The elbow anchors to my side as part of the whiping motion of the back knuckle, but not as far back as a chamber. The fist is turned @45'outward instead of upward, as a full chamber would. This may be why you said "cock" instead of "chamber," but I thought I'd ask for a clarification, as to me the two words are synonomouse. You are correct that this anchoring of the elbow really enhances the backfist strike.

    Other points/posts: Quite frankly, I don't see this technique as being nearly as effective steping back. And I never practice giving an opponent more than one good chance to push me. Pushes are dangerouse, and should be dealt with immediately. Opponents are also more dangerouse as they gain courage from your inaction.

    Dan C
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