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Thread: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

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    Default July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Alternating Maces (Front- Two-Hand Push)
    1. An attacker at 12 o'clock pushes your shoulders with both hands.

    2. Step your left foot back to 6 o'clock into a right neutral bow facing 12 o'clock as you execute a right inward block to your attacker's outer left arm.

    3. Collapse your right arm across the top of both of your attacker's arms to check them down. Pivot into a right forward bow using torque as you execute a left vertical punch to your attacker's solar plexus.

    4. Instantly convert your left punch into a check by having it collapse (palm open and down) on top of your attacker's arms. Pivot back into a right neutral bow stance as you execute a right backfist strike to your attacker's temple, utilizing counter-torque for power.
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    The description above is the way most Kenpoists teach it and the way I was originally taught and have practiced it.

    Larry Tatum punches underneath the opponent's arms after the inward block (assuming a two-hand high push) on his DVD, and I find this works well for me also. In either case, both work great depending upon the circumstance.
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    Larry Tatum punches underneath the opponent's arms after the inward block (assuming a two-hand high push) on his DVD, and I find this works well for me also. In either case, both work great depending upon the circumstance.
    Mr. Seabrook, I'm curiouse. What is your target if you punch under? Most anything you hit will bend him over at least a little. What do you target with the second strike (back knuckle)?

    If you blow it and put his arms too far out, this would seem to work much better to punch underneath. Is that why you do this? Your punch might then land on his ribs and not bend him too much. Also might open some good targets for the back knuckle.

    I was told when I learned this that it teaches control under extreme force- control of your own reaction as well as control of your opponent. The block should go toward his right shoulder so it doesn't put either arm too far to his right. Then, your right drops and cranes his right and your stance change pulls him back into allignment for your punch to his solar plex. That, of course, is the ideal.

    I'm wondering if Mr. Tatum was looking at another aspect of this tech, or a "what if," or what he was showing. I have some of his videos, and I enjoy his TOMs'. When he speaks, I try to listen. So, if you wouldn't mind, please elaborate!

    Dan C

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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    I think the difference is whether the attacker pushes high or low.

    If they push high, then you'd go underneath.

    If they push low, then you do a downward/inward block and go to the solar plexis. In either case, you'd go to the solar plexis.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan
    Mr. Seabrook, I'm curiouse. What is your target if you punch under? Most anything you hit will bend him over at least a little. What do you target with the second strike (back knuckle)?

    I'm wondering if Mr. Tatum was looking at another aspect of this tech, or a "what if," or what he was showing. I have some of his videos, and I enjoy his TOMs'. When he speaks, I try to listen. So, if you wouldn't mind, please elaborate!

    Dan C
    Hey Dan,

    The reverse punch can go to the ribs or solar plexus, depending upon the circumstance. The back knuckle works well to the temple or even jaw.

    This is how I teach it, ideal phase, but again it assumes a two hand high push.

    Hope that helps.
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Thanks, guys (Amy and Seabrook), that makes sense.

    Dan C

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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    I think this technique is great for teaching stance changes.

    Neutral-forward-neutral. It's a good preparation for learning long form 1 too.

    Getting students to do that combination of NFN seems to be one of the more difficult things to teach them.

    They tend to do a lot of neutral, sort of forward, then just leaning back and pretending it's a neutral bow.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    I think this technique is great for teaching stance changes. Neutral-forward-neutral. ... Getting students to do that combination of NFN seems to be one of the more difficult things to teach them. They tend to do a lot of neutral, sort of forward, then just leaning back and pretending it's a neutral bow.
    For me, the hardest thing was the control. I remember puting arms into orbit so that I only craned his left, and wipeing the arms as I tried too hard to make the blocks work. The cure for all of these was slowing down, attention to detail, working up slowly and going back when bad habbits crept back in.


    1. An attacker at 12 o'clock pushes your shoulders with both hands.

    Connects hard.

    2. Step your left foot back to 6 o'clock into a right neutral bow facing 12 o'clock as you execute a right inward block to your attacker's outer left arm.

    Actually, I step back onto the ball of my left foot, arms fly up as they would naturally if I'm surprised and pushed. Because I step back with my left, the left hand does not naturally come up as far as the right. Then I rotate into the neutral bow guiding my block towards his right shoulder. The settling into my stance, in addition to reindexing my position and structure, does the work of the block so that I don't overextend it or hammer his arms too far out. (edit: true structural reindexing doesn't occur until the forward bow, but I do regain a sense of my own center at this point)

    3. Collapse your right arm across the top of both of your attacker's arms to check them down. Pivot into a right forward bow using torque as you execute a left vertical punch to your attacker's solar plexus.

    The right hand also cranes his right so that the stance change again does the work of pulling him back into allignment for the punch, which delivers as he comes into position. At this point, I've come from a position of surprised, hurt and off ballance, to reaquireing my structure and ballance while totally messing up his. (Ballance here means more than just physical ballance- mental, physical, psycological, and proprioceptive)

    4. Instantly convert your left punch into a check by having it collapse (palm open and down) on top of your attacker's arms. Pivot back into a right neutral bow stance as you execute a right backfist strike to your attacker's temple, utilizing counter-torque for power.

    I've been taught two ways to back knuckle here. One, because of the counter torque the strike is more effective if it whips- including the wrist- into the back knuckle. The other, you should never whip a back knuckle at the wrist as it is too easily dammaged. I like the whip. What do you do?
    Last edited by thedan; 07-03-2006 at 02:21 AM.

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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    This is where I start teching the importance of moving your hips and introducing torque
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan
    I've been taught two ways to back knuckle here. One, because of the counter torque the strike is more effective if it whips- including the wrist- into the back knuckle. The other, you should never whip a back knuckle at the wrist as it is too easily dammaged. I like the whip. What do you do?
    I like a little whip too. I see some people teach it where the backknuckle seems to just stay out there, but my motto is, "what goes out, must come back, usually in the same fashion."

    How much whip I put in the backknuckle depends on the angle of the strike and the target.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    I like a little whip too. I see some people teach it where the backknuckle seems to just stay out there, but my motto is, "what goes out, must come back, usually in the same fashion."


    --Amy
    True that! Leave your arm or leg out there too long and someone (like me) will grab it and do nasty things to it. LOL
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    True that! Leave your arm or leg out there too long and someone (like me) will grab it and do nasty things to it. LOL
    LOL. When I teach, I make up all sorts of 'rules' about kenpo. One of which is that Kenpoists are stingy. We let our opponents 'borrow' our weapons (when they're making contact), but we always take them back. The only kind of 'gifts' we give to our opponents are 'gifts of destruction.'

    --Amy
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Alternating Maces also introduces students to Dimensional Zone and Quadrant theories, and is the foundation for several intermediate freestyle techniques.
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    The description above is the way most Kenpoists teach it and the way I was originally taught and have practiced it.

    Larry Tatum punches underneath the opponent's arms after the inward block (assuming a two-hand high push) on his DVD, and I find this works well for me also. In either case, both work great depending upon the circumstance.
    Master Tatum also showed me the benefit of this way as well. Try it, its faster and just as effective.
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate
    Master Tatum also showed me the benefit of this way as well. Try it, its faster and just as effective.
    Agreed!
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    The description above is the way most Kenpoists teach it and the way I was originally taught and have practiced it.

    Larry Tatum punches underneath the opponent's arms after the inward block (assuming a two-hand high push) on his DVD, and I find this works well for me also. In either case, both work great depending upon the circumstance.
    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate
    Master Tatum also showed me the benefit of this way as well. Try it, its faster and just as effective.
    I'm having difficulty picturing how the punch works under the arms....wouldn't the attacker's arms be in the way? in other words, if you haven't blocked the arms downwards (meaning you can't punch over the top of them), what action has been taken to enable the punch?

    thanks,
    James

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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    Larry Tatum punches underneath the opponent's arms after the inward block (assuming a two-hand high push) on his DVD, and I find this works well for me also. In either case, both work great depending upon the circumstance.
    I have seen the fist punch done both way, under to the stomach or over the arms to the solar plex
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    I think the difference is whether the attacker pushes high or low.

    If they push high, then you'd go underneath.

    If they push low, then you do a downward/inward block and go to the solar plexis. In either case, you'd go to the solar plexis.

    --Amy
    Hi Amy sorry to question here but surely regardless of whether they attack high or low(which seems quite questionable to me), the right inward to collapsing downward forearm block would bring your opponents arms don and head slightly forwards, this of course assumes that you let them push you in the first place and did not anticipate the push.

    Also going below the arms is structurally weaker for you as a defender.

    The rest well that's the way I liiike it aha!!!

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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB
    I'm having difficulty picturing how the punch works under the arms....wouldn't the attacker's arms be in the way? thanks,
    James
    Hi James,

    Not at all. The inward block cancels the opponent's width, and creates the opening for the reverse punch.

    Hope that helps.
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    Default Re: July 2006 Technique of the Month - Alternating Maces

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    Hi James,

    Not at all. The inward block cancels the opponent's width, and creates the opening for the reverse punch.

    Hope that helps.
    Hi Jamie,

    Long time no speak.

    Surely if the inward block was to be executed correctly then yes it would cancel out some of the opponents width, however the move to the downward foreamr (as I do it) ensures positive thought in that my block will work my opponents arms will go down and that the strike above my blocking arm will be stronger not only against my opponent but will ensure that I have good strength and structure should the opponent for some reason have the ability to come back towards me.

    Thoughts

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