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Thread: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

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    Default May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    Point Of Origin - The beginning, root, or source of any movement. The natural position or location of your body and natural weapon at the time action begins.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    IMHO, this is one of the most important principles taught to beginners. It is necessary in increasing the speed of your actions and in not having your moves telegraphed by an opponent. There are many more applications of course, but I wouldn't want to hog the thread. LOL. This could turn into an excellent discussion. I really look forward to reading others posts on this topic.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    To me the discussion of "point of origin" really ties in with the way we increase the power of our strikes. I think that one of the reasons that some of our "ways of power" (e.g. marriage of gravity, torque, etc.) are so important is that they allow us to strike with power from our "point of origin" (wherever that may be) rather than having to chamber or "wind up" to generate that power. As a result, we can strike from positions that would otherwise be ineffective. This gives us the ability, as CC said, to strike without telegraphing. It also makes our techniques/combos faster since less "prep time" is needed for our weapons.
    The test: "Will this work so that I can use it instinctively in vital combat against an opponent who is determined to prevent me from doing so, and who is striving to eliminate me by fair means or foul?" ~ Col. Rex Applegate

    Matt K.

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    This a very big principle. I like to make sure students are taught this in their very first self defense technique, Delayed Sword.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    This thread seemed to have died a premature death. Do we want to revive it?

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    Ok

    Very basic question, there are three techniques that teach this the most. One is from orange, one from purple, an one from blue. Which are they?
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    Ok this a principle which has always intrigued me so I'm going to put in my two cents worth here.

    1. How does going from point of origin increase speed and power?

    2. Is point of orgin often confused with path of execution.

    Let's see what answers we get and move on

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    1. How does going from point of origin increase speed and power?
    It doesn't increase either speed or power, it may shorten the delivery time, but POO doesn't have anything with how you generate your speed or your power.

    2. Is point of orgin often confused with path of execution.
    Yes, just because you can initiate a strike from PoO doesn't mean the shortest line between it and the target is ideal if you don't have the power to hurt the person on the other end. Making an arc or increasing travel time between PoO and the target may make the attack actually useful.
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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate View Post
    Ok

    Very basic question, there are three techniques that teach this the most. One is from orange, one from purple, an one from blue. Which are they?
    Which curricullum???
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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    Which curricullum???
    Smart.........I had to clear my throat lol.
    Ill give you a hint they cover low, medium, and high.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    I was tempted to answer in Tracy techs, but since that won't get us anywhere, I'll offer the opposite question:

    Which techs most violate Point of Origin? Do all techs follow PoO equally well? Probably not, if so which ones violate it the worst? As an example, I would suggest that Thundering Hammers violates it pretty blatently, what are some other examples?
    Last edited by Blindside; 03-02-2007 at 01:08 PM. Reason: clarify my question
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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    **Insert Beavis & Butthead voiceover** Blindisde said POO.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate View Post
    Ok

    Very basic question, there are three techniques that teach this the most. One is from orange, one from purple, an one from blue. Which are they?
    The most huh?
    Sean

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    [quote=Blindside;47911]It doesn't increase either speed or power, it may shorten the delivery time, but POO doesn't have anything with how you generate your speed or your power.

    quote]Gotta disagree with you there.
    Sean

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    I was tempted to answer in Tracy techs, but since that won't get us anywhere, I'll offer the opposite question:

    Which techs most violate Point of Origin? Do all techs follow PoO equally well? Probably not, if so which ones violate it the worst? As an example, I would suggest that Thundering Hammers violates it pretty blatently, what are some other examples?
    How does the way you do Thundering Hammers violate point of origin? Maybe I can help.
    Sean

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    How does the way you do Thundering Hammers violate point of origin? Maybe I can help.
    Sean
    Lets start from when you do the right inward horizontal forearm strike, what is your left hand doing?
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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    [quote=KenpoChanger;47936]
    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    It doesn't increase either speed or power, it may shorten the delivery time, but POO doesn't have anything with how you generate your speed or your power.

    quote]Gotta disagree with you there.
    Sean
    Please explain.
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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    [quote=Blindside;47939]
    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post

    Please explain.
    Point of origin is related to point of reference. Points of reference are the places you are strongest (or strong enough) with the three major muscle groupings. If your cock your motion, you do it from a reference point. Mostly our art has us return our motion to a nutural cocked position at the return apex; however, point of origin means we do not have to return or cock to the positions but that we are still locked into using one of the three muscle grouping not matter what. Long story short, you are faster over all if you are constanly choosing the closest point of reference relative the position you are in at the time. Wrong choices are slower and less powerfull.
    Sean

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    Lets start from when you do the right inward horizontal forearm strike, what is your left hand doing?
    Checking the shoulder while maintaining centerline alignment with the elbow, of course. This helps you stay behind him.
    Sean

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    Default Re: May 2006 - Principle of the Month - Point of Origin

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    Checking the shoulder while maintaining centerline alignment with the elbow, of course. This helps you stay behind him.
    Sean
    And then what does the left hand do? (and incidentally, the left hand check is left out by way too many kenpoists, nice).
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