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Thread: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

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    Default EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Squatting Sacrifice (Rear- Bear Hug; Arms Free)


    1. An attacker at 6 o'clock grabs you in a bear hug; yet leaves your arms free.

    2. Step your right foot to 3 o'clock into a horse stance as you execute rightand left outward overhead elbow down onto your attacker's forearms.

    3. Squat down onto your attacker's right knee. Bend over and with both hands,grab your attacker's ankle. Shift into a concave stance as you pulls up on yourattacker's right ankle to force them to fall onto their back.

    4. Twist your attacker's right ankle clockwise as you have your right legcircle clockwise (preferably striking them in the face if possible) landing to 7:30into a right reverse close kneel stance.

    5. Pivot into a right forward bow as you complete the twisting of yourattacker's right ankle.

    6. While maintaining your grab on your attacker's right ankle with your righthand, step your left foot to 4:30 into a left close kneel stance parallel toyour attacker's body as you have your left hand grab your attacker's leftwrist.

    7. Support your weight on your left leg as you cock your right leg high.

    8. Pull up on your attacker's wrist and leg as you execute a right heel stompto your attacker's lower spine.
    9. Sweep your attacker's left arm out as you go into a right front crossover to4:30 and cross out.
    Tradition is not about the preservation of the ashes, but about keeping the flame alive

    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it".
    ~George Orwell
    Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way." Booker T. Washington


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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkS View Post
    Squatting Sacrifice (Rear- Bear Hug; Arms Free)


    1. An attacker at 6 o'clock grabs you in a bear hug; yet leaves your arms free.

    2. Step your right foot to 3 o'clock into a horse stance as you execute rightand left outward overhead elbow down onto your attacker's forearms.

    3. Squat down onto your attacker's right knee. Bend over and with both hands,grab your attacker's ankle. Shift into a concave stance as you pulls up on yourattacker's right ankle to force them to fall onto their back.

    4. Twist your attacker's right ankle clockwise as you have your right legcircle clockwise (preferably striking them in the face if possible) landing to 7:30into a right reverse close kneel stance.

    5. Pivot into a right forward bow as you complete the twisting of yourattacker's right ankle.

    6. While maintaining your grab on your attacker's right ankle with your righthand, step your left foot to 4:30 into a left close kneel stance parallel toyour attacker's body as you have your left hand grab your attacker's leftwrist.

    7. Support your weight on your left leg as you cock your right leg high.

    8. Pull up on your attacker's wrist and leg as you execute a right heel stompto your attacker's lower spine.
    9. Sweep your attacker's left arm out as you go into a right front crossover to4:30 and cross out.
    One of my personal fav's and most widely poorly executed techniques. This technique inmo is not typically done correctly and it starts with the way the technique is written. And before all you nay sayers and BJJ fans jump on this as being no good, check yourself and watch the Gracie video where Hoyce Helio and Rhickson (sp?) are teaching this and another "similar to Kenpo" technique as "the way" to defend against this and that attack.
    The greatest issue I see with the execution of this technique by most is the lack of understanding of levers and leverage and it's proper application in conjunction with proper angles. That being said allow me to elaborate; The first step should not be toward 3 but more toward 430 there by cutting off the stepping foot of the assailant, that they surely will use to gain balance and maintain stance with your step. This creates IMO the proper angle of incidence/attack on the opponents leg at the point of squatting on the leg and creates a proper 3rd class lever and off balance of the opponent.
    That's enough, great post love this for the lessons that it has to offer the willing.
    "The problem is not whether or not you like bad kenpo, the problem is recognizing whether or not your kenpo is bad!"
    "learning should be an endless process, learning how to continually learn is the key and requires the release of ego"

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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    One of my personal fav's and most widely poorly executed techniques. This technique inmo is not typically done correctly and it starts with the way the technique is written. And before all you nay sayers and BJJ fans jump on this as being no good, check yourself and watch the Gracie video where Hoyce Helio and Rhickson (sp?) are teaching this and another "similar to Kenpo" technique as "the way" to defend against this and that attack.
    Could you provide the links, please?

    The greatest issue I see with the execution of this technique by most is the lack of understanding of levers and leverage and it's proper application in conjunction with proper angles. That being said allow me to elaborate; The first step should not be toward 3 but more toward 430 there by cutting off the stepping foot of the assailant, that they surely will use to gain balance and maintain stance with your step.
    I agree. Stepping out at an angle is a good idea with all the rear bear hug techniques, I think.

    This creates IMO the proper angle of incidence/attack on the opponents leg at the point of squatting on the leg and creates a proper 3rd class lever and off balance of the opponent.
    That's enough, great post love this for the lessons that it has to offer the willing.

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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    One of my personal fav's and most widely poorly executed techniques. This technique inmo is not typically done correctly and it starts with the way the technique is written. And before all you nay sayers and BJJ fans jump on this as being no good, check yourself and watch the Gracie video where Hoyce Helio and Rhickson (sp?) are teaching this and another "similar to Kenpo" technique as "the way" to defend against this and that attack.
    The greatest issue I see with the execution of this technique by most is the lack of understanding of levers and leverage and it's proper application in conjunction with proper angles. That being said allow me to elaborate; The first step should not be toward 3 but more toward 430 there by cutting off the stepping foot of the assailant, that they surely will use to gain balance and maintain stance with your step. This creates IMO the proper angle of incidence/attack on the opponents leg at the point of squatting on the leg and creates a proper 3rd class lever and off balance of the opponent.
    That's enough, great post love this for the lessons that it has to offer the willing.
    A very similar technique can be found in some very old jujitsu books
    Tradition is not about the preservation of the ashes, but about keeping the flame alive

    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it".
    ~George Orwell
    Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way." Booker T. Washington


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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    I think we prefix the elbows with paired middle knuckle wraps on the back of the grabbing hand. Obviously, this changes much about how the elbows strike.

    And, in this write up, I don't see the sacrifice at all ... or what some call the pacifier: A heel strike to the groin between 3 & 4.

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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkS View Post
    A very similar technique can be found in some very old jujitsu books
    Where did you think it came from? If you go back far enough you discover Kenpo was more jiu-jitsu than Kenpo.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    One of my personal fav's and most widely poorly executed techniques. This technique inmo is not typically done correctly and it starts with the way the technique is written. And before all you nay sayers and BJJ fans jump on this as being no good, check yourself and watch the Gracie video where Hoyce Helio and Rhickson (sp?) are teaching this and another "similar to Kenpo" technique as "the way" to defend against this and that attack.
    The greatest issue I see with the execution of this technique by most is the lack of understanding of levers and leverage and it's proper application in conjunction with proper angles. That being said allow me to elaborate; The first step should not be toward 3 but more toward 430 there by cutting off the stepping foot of the assailant, that they surely will use to gain balance and maintain stance with your step. This creates IMO the proper angle of incidence/attack on the opponents leg at the point of squatting on the leg and creates a proper 3rd class lever and off balance of the opponent.
    That's enough, great post love this for the lessons that it has to offer the willing.
    Excellent. May I ask about negating Body Momentum?
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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Excellent. May I ask about negating Body Momentum?
    Well Sir, I don't believe that I mentioned "body Momentum" actually. But since you ask there is almost without fail a body or positional alignment "mechanism" (your terminology) of one type or another required just prior to the right leg stepping across to the horse stance and cancellation of the opponents step or next step. Newtons Law and all that. The "body momentum" occurs as the result of impact of the opponents grab initially since nobody is likely to walk up slowly and grab you up in a rear bear hug, this is typically where the momentum is found as they push into you thereby forcing you forward. So there are two parts to the body momentum that need consideration and attention, yours and his. And what you are getting at is "how" do I overcome theirs, and my own which is now multiplied by his/her wait and own momentum, am I right? So what is this "alignment" or how does it happen? Well Doc, as you know it's been happening for many years, you gotta plant and stop the momentum, then you can move again. What does that look like, well likely the left foot will plant forward slightly allowing for a disruption in there action and opportunity for proper stance/balance (bracing angle) for you then on to the right leg step across the opponents leg for the cancellation I spoke of. But then I could be wayyy off base! Ok it's all you Sir.
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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Where did you think it came from? If you go back far enough you discover Kenpo was more jiu-jitsu than Kenpo.
    on a side note...did Ed Parker have a large library of martial art books?
    Tradition is not about the preservation of the ashes, but about keeping the flame alive

    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it".
    ~George Orwell
    Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way." Booker T. Washington


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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice



    Here is the Helio Gracie version taught in the GJJ self-defense curriculum.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkS View Post
    on a side note...did Ed Parker have a large library of martial art books?
    You name it he had it.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    The "body momentum" occurs as the result of impact of the opponents grab initially since nobody is likely to walk up slowly and grab you up in a rear bear hug, this is typically where the momentum is found as they push into you thereby forcing you forward. So there are two parts to the body momentum that need consideration and attention, yours and his. And what you are getting at is "how" do I overcome theirs, and my own which is now multiplied by his/her wait and own momentum, am I right?
    No you're not off base and you are one of the few that even broach the topic. The problem is when you look at the videos, the attacker never brings Body Momentum to the attack, which in reality is a major concern. The static bear hug doesn't exist in a street attack. Even if they're not trying to take you down, they're trying to get their hands on you quickly and that will force body momentum slamming into you forcing a destabilising of your own platform. That has to be accounted for.

    The other thing that I always notice is the attacker always grabs at the victims waist. This too is an accomodation to make the technique easier to do just like the lack of body momentum. Mechanically if you were to rush someone to grab them in a rear bear hug, you would not grab them at their waist, you would grab where mechanically you had the most leverage and that is at your natural arm height. You would only "stoop" to grab the waist if you intended to lift or "suplex" your victim, which would take them off their feet and negate the stated defense altogether.

    This technique was included in the curriculum because Gene LeBell brought many of these "entertainment" wrestling moves as problems to be solved, but rarely if ever present themselves in real life even though they are seen quite regularly in fake wrestling but never in real wrestling competition. Or as they say, grown ass men don't grab grown ass men unless there's more than one of them. This type of technique is more likely to fall within the category I call Gender Disparity Problems. More likely from a big man to a women or a smaller man, or a group attack in which staying on your feet are an imperative.

    I decoded stances and footwork years ago and completed the last of the analysis not to long ago. it is a science unto itself. Mr. Parker always said, "it's not about defending yourself when you go down, it's about learning how not to go down first." I got a few tricks for you sir.
    sumdumguy likes this.
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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post


    Here is the Helio Gracie version taught in the GJJ self-defense curriculum.
    Mr. Parker said it best: "When they only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail."
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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Yes Sir, all that! I typically attribute peoples "lack of" to pure laziness first and then to the absence of understanding, however I may have that backwards. Either way it's like owning a 45 and buying 9mm ammo, not ever going to work and something that should have been researched prior to purchase. Thanks for the good Stuff!!!
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    "learning should be an endless process, learning how to continually learn is the key and requires the release of ego"

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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    No you're not off base and you are one of the few that even broach the topic. The problem is when you look at the videos, the attacker never brings Body Momentum to the attack, which in reality is a major concern. The static bear hug doesn't exist in a street attack. Even if they're not trying to take you down, they're trying to get their hands on you quickly and that will force body momentum slamming into you forcing a destabilising of your own platform. That has to be accounted for.

    The other thing that I always notice is the attacker always grabs at the victims waist. This too is an accomodation to make the technique easier to do just like the lack of body momentum. Mechanically if you were to rush someone to grab them in a rear bear hug, you would not grab them at their waist, you would grab where mechanically you had the most leverage and that is at your natural arm height. You would only "stoop" to grab the waist if you intended to lift or "suplex" your victim, which would take them off their feet and negate the stated defense altogether.

    This technique was included in the curriculum because Gene LeBell brought many of these "entertainment" wrestling moves as problems to be solved, but rarely if ever present themselves in real life even though they are seen quite regularly in fake wrestling but never in real wrestling competition. Or as they say, grown ass men don't grab grown ass men unless there's more than one of them. This type of technique is more likely to fall within the category I call Gender Disparity Problems. More likely from a big man to a women or a smaller man, or a group attack in which staying on your feet are an imperative.

    I decoded stances and footwork years ago and completed the last of the analysis not to long ago. it is a science unto itself. Mr. Parker always said, "it's not about defending yourself when you go down, it's about learning how not to go down first." I got a few tricks for you sir.
    Hmmmmm...I smell a "Full Nelson" coming on next.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    Hmmmmm...I smell a "Full Nelson" coming on next.
    Same problems follow the full nelson. Seen all the time in "wrestling," but doesn't happen in reality for mechanical reasons.
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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    No you're not off base and you are one of the few that even broach the topic. The problem is when you look at the videos, the attacker never brings Body Momentum to the attack, which in reality is a major concern. The static bear hug doesn't exist in a street attack. Even if they're not trying to take you down, they're trying to get their hands on you quickly and that will force body momentum slamming into you forcing a destabilising of your own platform. That has to be accounted for.

    The other thing that I always notice is the attacker always grabs at the victims waist. This too is an accomodation to make the technique easier to do just like the lack of body momentum. Mechanically if you were to rush someone to grab them in a rear bear hug, you would not grab them at their waist, you would grab where mechanically you had the most leverage and that is at your natural arm height. You would only "stoop" to grab the waist if you intended to lift or "suplex" your victim, which would take them off their feet and negate the stated defense altogether.

    This technique was included in the curriculum because Gene LeBell brought many of these "entertainment" wrestling moves as problems to be solved, but rarely if ever present themselves in real life even though they are seen quite regularly in fake wrestling but never in real wrestling competition. Or as they say, grown ass men don't grab grown ass men unless there's more than one of them. This type of technique is more likely to fall within the category I call Gender Disparity Problems. More likely from a big man to a women or a smaller man, or a group attack in which staying on your feet are an imperative.

    I decoded stances and footwork years ago and completed the last of the analysis not to long ago. it is a science unto itself. Mr. Parker always said, "it's not about defending yourself when you go down, it's about learning how not to go down first." I got a few tricks for you sir.


    Okay, folks. Let's be real, here. Most of the points up here^^^? Good stuff.

    However. In real life? You're getting grabbed, displaced, punched, and probably slammed...into a wall or object, or the ground...or tackled if someone secures a bear hug on you. Especially if it's done by surprise. Realistically, the chances don't favor ANYONE of equivalent size or smaller than their attacker just reacting with precognitive quickness and hitting a stance that's going to stop the attacker.

    Like I showed nearly a decade or so ago? You gotta not just POST ABOUT more realistic stuff. You have to SHOW ABOUT this more realistic stuff:




    And...if you're a good teacher, with real experience frocking the words you say and the posts you post... you have to compare and contrast stuff that doesn't work and stuff that does work, for your edification and the edification of onlookers,students and potential students. That's what students and the art needs, and if you care about both more than you fear the klueless kritique of kombatless konstantly kantankerous kapitalist kash kopping kenpo kosplayers? You'll actually do the work and show it on video. If you do? You'll get stuff like this here:



    The posted debates onsite sometimes provide compelling reading, but ladies and germs...STEP IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA AND SHOW WHAT YOU BE ABOUT. Yeah, I said: "...be about." There's far. Far. Faaarrrr. Too much keyboard konvos and postulating, pontificating posts without the a priori proper context of the people providing such learned posts and responses actually showing themselves showing themselves doing what they be about.

    Holla atcha boi.

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    Default Re: EPAK May 2020 TOM Squatting Sacrifice

    Well Well, Raz is back!!! Hate to tell you this Raz but until I see some blood flying out of some orifices and some stuff being broken, that ain't real "what you be about" training, it's no different than any other video showing some staccato step by step technique or training drill but merely another PRE arranged and controlled fight scenario designed to give the participants a better idea and feel for what "might" be a real world scenario without the "actual" danger of being injured. So while I appreciate your beautifully edited video and the concept of what your presenting, it's the same thing! Don't fool yourself for one minute into thinking other people don't train like that or maybe even harder... that's what IT "be about".
    "The problem is not whether or not you like bad kenpo, the problem is recognizing whether or not your kenpo is bad!"
    "learning should be an endless process, learning how to continually learn is the key and requires the release of ego"

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