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Thread: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

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    Default April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Form of theMonth

    Short Form 2


    OPENING:
    1. Attention Stance
    2. Bow.
    3. Signify.
    4. Step your left foot to a meditative horse stance.

    1. Start from a horse stance facing 12 o'clock.

    2. Step your right foot forward towards 12 o'clock into a right neutral bowwhile executing a right inward block with your left hand checking low. Executea right outward hand sword. (Sink into a wide kneel utilizing marriage ofgravity.)

    3. Step your left foot forward towards 12 o'clock into a left neutral bow whileexecuting a left inward block with your right hand checking low. Execute a leftoutward hand sword. (Sink into a wide kneel.)

    4. Slide your left foot into a left cat stance while covering your right fist(on hip, palm up) with a left vertical fist. Step out into a left neutral bowfacing 9 o'clock while simultaneously executing a left outward block and aright reverse punch.

    5. Slide your right foot into a right cat stance facing 12 o'clock whilecovering your left hand (on hip, palm up) with a right vertical fist. Step outinto a right neutral bow facing 3 o'clock while simultaneously executing aright outward block and a left reverse punch.

    6. Slide your left foot into a left cat stance facing 12 o'clock. Have yourhands at your right hip, left over the right. Step toward 5 o'clock with yourleft foot, pivoting into a left wide kneel facing 6 o'clock as yousimultaneously execute a left upward block and a right middle knuckle with avertical downward snap.

    7. V-step your right foot to 12 o'clock into a right wide kneel whilesimultaneously executing a right upward block and a left verticle raking middleknuckle with a vertical downward snap.

    8. Slide your left foot back into a left cat stance facing 12 o'clock and haveyour hands at your right hip, right hand over left. Step your left foot to 4:30into a left neutral bow while executing a left downward block.

    9. Step through to 4:30 into a right neutral bow while executing a right palmheel strike while your left hand checks your mid-section.

    10. V-step your right foot to 7:30 into a right neutral bow while executing aright downward block.

    11. Step to 7:30, into a left neutral bow while executing a left palm heelstrike while your right hand checks your mid-section.

    12. Slide your right foot back into a cat stance and turn clockwise to 1:30while executing a left inward block with the right hand cocking palm up at thewaist.

    13. Step to 1:30 into a right neutral bow while executing a right extendedoutward block with the left hand cocked palm up in a half-fist at your ribcage.

    14. Shift into a right forward bow while executing a left half-fist at throatlevel.

    15. Slide your left foot forward into a cat stance and turn counterclockwise to10:30 while executing a right inward block with the left hand cocking itselfpalm up at your waist.

    16. Step to 10:3 into a left neutral bow while executing a left extendedoutward block with your right hand cocked palm up in a half-fist at your ribcage.

    17. Shift into a left forward bow while executing a right half-fist at throatlevel.

    18. Shift your foot so you are in a meditative horse stance facing 12 o'clock.


    Tradition is not about the preservation of the ashes, but about keeping the flame alive

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    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it".
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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    I learned this form a long time ago, and enjoy doing it, but I was wondering if someone would be able to explain the purpose of the middle knuckle rake. Doing a knuckle rake the way it is done in short 2 seems very weak, with a high possibility of injury to your own hand if this was actually applied to an opponent.

    Thanks

    Hamprp50

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamprp50 View Post
    I learned this form a long time ago, and enjoy doing it, but I was wondering if someone would be able to explain the purpose of the middle knuckle rake. Doing a knuckle rake the way it is done in short 2 seems very weak, with a high possibility of injury to your own hand if this was actually applied to an opponent.

    Thanks

    Hamprp50

    Note the middle knuckle strike occurs with the upward block, and from a wide kneel stance. Seems to me this demonstrates moving under an incoming attack.
    My favorite explanation is 'Nip the Tip'. I'll let you guess 'The tip of what'.

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamprp50 View Post
    I learned this form a long time ago, and enjoy doing it, but I was wondering if someone would be able to explain the purpose of the middle knuckle rake. Doing a knuckle rake the way it is done in short 2 seems very weak, with a high possibility of injury to your own hand if this was actually applied to an opponent.

    Thanks

    Hamprp50
    When you have opened the ribs as a target by blocking under a punch, those ribs are tender. If you rake the knuckle forcefully through and into the ribs in a downward motion, from that position, it hurts. Have someone do it to you, and tell us what you think.
    Michael


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    Negative Douche Bag Number One

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamprp50 View Post
    I learned this form a long time ago, and enjoy doing it, but I was wondering if someone would be able to explain the purpose of the middle knuckle rake. Doing a knuckle rake the way it is done in short 2 seems very weak, with a high possibility of injury to your own hand if this was actually applied to an opponent.

    Thanks

    Hamprp50
    You are correct.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Most misunderstand the "middle knuckle rake" and its execution. In discussions with Mr. Parker on the issue it was described to me as a "hammering punch" with an extended knuckle that engaged the "raking" action only after the hammering and punching action had taken place. The "nip the tip" reference was a joke that Mr. Parker attempted to use to explain the action and it's follow through motion, however in my opinion it only confused the issue and he never took the time to correct it's execution that I know of. He explained, "It's up to the teachers to figure it out and get it right. Every time and showed it so someone I did it correctly." How many times have I heard that!
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    When you have opened the ribs as a target by blocking under a punch, those ribs are tender. If you rake the knuckle forcefully through and into the ribs in a downward motion, from that position, it hurts. Have someone do it to you, and tell us what you think.

    Also important to note what comes after the Rake? the three back knuckles, chain punches, whatever you want to call them. Think about what you have basically just done, you have blocked the attack up followed with the rake.. changing the attackers height as the rake is a friction down the body..

    Block ...body goes up, rake ....body goes down, positioning for the punch punch punch.

    just something to think about...

    thoughts?

    Bunbun
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Most misunderstand the "middle knuckle rake" and its execution. In discussions with Mr. Parker on the issue it was described to me as a "hammering punch" with an extended knuckle that engaged the "raking" action only after the hammering and punching action had taken place. The "nip the tip" reference was a joke that Mr. Parker attempted to use to explain the action and it's follow through motion, however in my opinion it only confused the issue and he never took the time to correct it's execution that I know of. He explained, "It's up to the teachers to figure it out and get it right. Every time I showed it so someone I did it correctly." How many times have I heard that!
    "It's up to the teachers to figure it out and get it right. Every time I showed it so someone I did it correctly." How many times have I heard that!
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny View Post
    Also important to note what comes after the Rake? the three back knuckles, chain punches, whatever you want to call them. Think about what you have basically just done, you have blocked the attack up followed with the rake.. changing the attackers height as the rake is a friction down the body..

    Block ...body goes up, rake ....body goes down, positioning for the punch punch punch.

    just something to think about...

    thoughts?

    Bunbun
    the form as a whole is full of disfunction and was modified to fit the then new Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate "Long/Short" structure. Originally the "short" version was the second half of what they now call "Short One." In other words it's a mess.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    the form as a whole is full of disfunction and was modified to fit the then new Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate "Long/Short" structure. Originally the "short" version was the second half of what they now call "Short One." In other words it's a mess.

    Going to be annoyingly optimistic here..

    Isn't it really for the individual and the instructor to use the form to impart the lesson to a large degree?

    To say that the form is a mess is like saying a rock is just a rock.. sure it Corundum and it is a weird funky blue... but ya take that rock... cut it up a bit and polish in the right way and you have a nifty Sapphire..

    Disfunction is just another form of function right?

    I got my hot cocoa to the perfect temp... so im in a really good mood...

    everyone shoudl dance with me.. the happy Snoopy dance....

    Bunny bounce bounce...
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny View Post
    Going to be annoyingly optimistic here..

    Isn't it really for the individual and the instructor to use the form to impart the lesson to a large degree?

    To say that the form is a mess is like saying a rock is just a rock.. sure it Corundum and it is a weird funky blue... but ya take that rock... cut it up a bit and polish in the right way and you have a nifty Sapphire..

    Disfunction is just another form of function right?

    I got my hot cocoa to the perfect temp... so im in a really good mood...

    everyone shoudl dance with me.. the happy Snoopy dance....

    Bunny bounce bounce...
    No I totally agree with you.

    This is the conundrum of Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate. The entire curriculum is a "suggested" place to begin exploration of material in your personalized training. Kinda like a heavier version of JKD. Everything is open to interpretation but many have chosen to turn it into a "style" of the arts where everything is done the same; techniques, basics, forms, sets, etc. None of this is true.

    EPKK is a conceptual training mechanism that many understand and do good things with. But the "stylists" want to put everyone in a box that fits their perspective. The material however is judged from multiple perspectives. if the individual is "pleased" with their own exploration and results, fine. Does the material work for you? Fine. What any one person does is judged through the prism of their own experiences and perceived needs.

    When I criticize aspects of the system as performed by others, I'm only criticizing the individuals interpretation of what they are doing, not the system itself. Just because a person does things differently from me or you doesn't mean they're wrong. Everything must be judged on the underlying foundation of practical execution for a self-defense training regimine.

    However, everyone isn't approaching the material with that in mind. Many see a workout, or a belt, and a status symbol or a way to make money. Actual practical Self defense is not on their mind or within their ability to actually judge from a practical point-of-view. So although Mr. Parker intended it for self defense, and that's how people like you or I judge what we see, many choose to turn it into something else. Considering it was created as a business first to impart minimal martial skills, it can do a decent a job when the right perspective is taught and imprinted on students. When it doesn't, it's the teachers fault when their focus is elsewhere or out of ignorance coupled with the contradiction of staying financially viable as the 300 pound gorilla in the room.

    Someone put up a video on "blocking" recently that was completely, and I can't emphasize it enough, completely devoid of sound mechanics for the purposes at hand. This person and his instructor have gleaned through Infinite Insights and have a high opinion of themselves and an understanding of the system that is about as far wrong as you can get. They think they're doing a good job and are seeking to enlighten the rest of us when clearly they have absolutely no understanding of the system or its practical function. they have chosen a perspective and interpretation that is frankly, "wack." But, it is their perspective and they're entitled to it, even though it does stray away from the design of the system function.

    That's the beauty of Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate. Everyone is absolutely entitled to suck on their own terms.
    Last edited by Doc; 12-13-2019 at 10:42 PM.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    No I totally agree with you.

    This is the conundrum of Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate. The entire curriculum is a "suggested" place to begin exploration of material in your personalized training. Kinda like a heavier version of JKD. Everything is open to interpretation but many have chosen to turn it into a "style" of the arts where everything is done the same; techniques, basics, forms, sets, etc. None of this is true.

    EPKK is a conceptual training mechanism that many understand and do good things with. But the "stylists" want to put everyone in a box that fits their perspective. The material however is judged from multiple perspectives. if the individual is "pleased" with their own exploration and results, fine. Does the material work for you? Fine. What any one person does is judged through the prism of their own experiences and perceived needs.

    When I criticize aspects of the system as performed by others, I'm only criticizing the individuals interpretation of what they are doing, not the system itself. Just because a person does things differently from me or you doesn't mean they're wrong. Everything must be judged on the underlying foundation of practical execution for a self-defense training regimine.
    Indeed, well said Sir!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    However, everyone isn't approaching the material with that in mind. Many see a workout, or a belt, and a status symbol or a way to make money. Actual practical Self defense is not on their mind or within their ability to actually judge from a practical point-of-view. So although Mr. Parker intended it for self defense, and that's how people like you or I judge what we see, many choose to turn it into something else. Considering it was created as a business first to impart minimal martial skills, it can do a decent a job when the right perspective is taught and imprinted on students. When it doesn't, it's the teachers fault when their focus is elsewhere or out of ignorance coupled with the contradiction of staying financially viable as the 300 pound gorilla in the room.
    Sadly there are many "wrong" perspectives and very very bad kenpoists, and kenpo instructors. And well, as we all know this is prevelant throughout the Martial Arts community. On Point Sir!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Someone put up a video on "blocking" recently that was completely, and I can't emphasize it enough, completely devoid of sound mechanics for the purposes at hand. This person and his instructor have gleaned through Infinite Insights and have a high opinion of themselves and an understanding of the system that is about as far wrong as you can get. They think they're doing a good job and are seeking to enlighten the rest of us when clearly they have absolutely no understanding of the system or its practical function. they have chosen a perspective and interpretation that is frankly, "wack." But, it is their perspective and they're entitled to it, even though it does stray away from the design of the system function.

    That's the beauty of Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate. Everyone is absolutely entitled to suck on their own terms.
    And Suck they will!!!
    "The problem is not whether or not you like bad kenpo, the problem is recognizing whether or not your kenpo is bad!"
    "learning should be an endless process, learning how to continually learn is the key and requires the release of ego"

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    Indeed, well said Sir!!!

    Sadly there are many "wrong" perspectives and very very bad kenpoists, and kenpo instructors. And well, as we all know this is prevelant throughout the Martial Arts community. On Point Sir!!!

    And Suck they will!!!
    Like a HOOVER.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    No I totally agree with you.
    .......

    Someone put up a video on "blocking" recently that was completely, and I can't emphasize it enough, completely devoid of sound mechanics for the purposes at hand. This person and his instructor have gleaned through Infinite Insights and have a high opinion of themselves and an understanding of the system that is about as far wrong as you can get. They think they're doing a good job and are seeking to enlighten the rest of us when clearly they have absolutely no understanding of the system or its practical function. they have chosen a perspective and interpretation that is frankly, "wack." But, it is their perspective and they're entitled to it, even though it does stray away from the design of the system function.

    That's the beauty of Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate. Everyone is absolutely entitled to suck on their own terms.
    Soooooo..... no mention of the hot Cocoa hu? ..... hu.....

    But now I do really want to see that video... LOL

    Bunny working late.
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny View Post
    Soooooo..... no mention of the hot Cocoa hu? ..... hu.....

    But now I do really want to see that video... LOL

    Bunny working late.
    Don't say that you were not warned!
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Ohhhhhhhh *Excitingly clapping hands*

    Gimmi!!!!!


    gimmi!!!!!!!!
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Don't say that you were not warned!

    I want to see it like I want a thick squishy piece of bacon on a maple glaze doughnut!!!!

    (I'm hitting 13 hours on my shift... got an hour left... )

    Thulsa Bunbun
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny View Post
    I want to see it like I want a thick squishy piece of bacon on a maple glaze doughnut!!!!

    (I'm hitting 13 hours on my shift... got an hour left... )

    Thulsa Bunbun
    i see. You're delirious.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    i see. You're delirious.

    Feed me terrible videos!!!

    granted I already found a few on youtube that bring out the WTF? personal favorite are blackbelts with too many red stripes whos belt looks like they took it to a sander cause it's almost white again.
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

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    Default Re: April 2019 Form of the month Short Form 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    i see. You're delirious.

    Delirium? .. 5 hours of sleep, 2 hour commute, 14 hour shift, and another 1.5 hour commute ahead of me? no... no not delirium... doughnuts and coffee.. and more coffee... and a small bag of chocolate covered coffee beans yes....



    What could go wrong?
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

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