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Thread: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

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    Default February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    BACK-UP-MASS - The use of body weight that is directly behind the action that is taking place.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    I know many people who excel in the use of back up mass I myself, do not. There is not enough of me to be "mass"
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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    I asked my first Kenpo instructor (Roger W. Taylor, 3rd Dan) to explain/expound upon "Back up Mass"...

    without missing a beat ((being Catholic)) he said: "It's Saturday Night."

    sure do miss that guy.

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    THAT is an excellent come-back line!
    Susan A. Spann

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyu
    THAT is an excellent come-back line!
    Yeah... Mr. Taylor's like that. Only things as sharp as his technical abilities are his wardrobe, his knives and his wit.

    To this day I can't but barely think of "Back up Mass" without getting a smile.

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John
    I asked my first Kenpo instructor (Roger W. Taylor, 3rd Dan) to explain/expound upon "Back up Mass"... he said: "It's Saturday Night."
    Never quite thought of it like that...???!

    The physical dimension represented by BUM is deapth- backup mass is engaged primarily by moving forward or back, ie movement in deapth. It doesn't need to be straight forward or back, and it can be engaged with torque or marriage of gravity. Again (as was said in the thread on torque), each of the three main principles are inherent in and can be developed from the others.

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Back-up mass can be utilized in any diminsion, with essentially any weapon. Gravitational Marriage is just back up mass in the vertical plane, for ease of communication, one of Mr. Parker's truely great tools, was creating a language we could communicate with and utilize shared semantics.

    I was at a seminar of his in the mid 1980's when he utilized his index finger as "backup mass" for the slicing middle finger, just to make the point. Backup mass can be a component of Gravitational Marriage, but not all backup mass utilizes Gravitational Marriage.

    Now ain't that a mouthful, but evident once you think about it.

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    I like the "Truck & Bumper" analogy used by SGM Ed Parker.

    I can't remember it word-for-word but it had to do with being struck by a truck. The point of contact is made with the bumper, yet it is not the bumper that is responsible for causing the damage. The damage is caused by the weight of the truck that is behind the bumber.

    It is fairly easy to draw a corelation to the execution of a front round elbow. Consider your elbow as the "bumper" and your body as the "truck" behind it. Everybody has mass (even you Miyu ) and when you couple that principle with others like gravatational marriage and tourque, you can generate a heck of a lot of power regardless of size and strength.

    IMHO =)
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    When I see people not using BUM, I show them a backknuckle and how with just my arm, it might hurt a little, but it's mostly just annoying.

    Then I show them with the truck behind it and they say, "oohhhhhh."

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Keep on truckin'!! LOL.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    I like the "Truck & Bumper" analogy used by SGM Ed Parker.

    I can't remember it word-for-word but it had to do with being struck by a truck. The point of contact is made with the bumper, yet it is not the bumper that is responsible for causing the damage. The damage is caused by the weight of the truck that is behind the bumber.
    The "U Dub" Physics department wrote a good part of the EVAP (driving) course for Fire Services Training. To help picture the physical forces acting on a vehicle dureing maneuvers, they described the center of gravity of the vehicle as a plumb on a string. If you sudddenly stop, the effective cg continues to move forward. This is the difference in getting swated away by the bumper and being hit by the whole truck.

    Edit: I think the analogy was related to MOG, more than BUM. I'll look it up. But it should relate to both- again, the principles are all inter-related.

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    Arrow Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan
    Edit: I think the analogy was related to MOG, more than BUM. I'll look it up. But it should relate to both- again, the principles are all inter-related.
    Actually, on page 4 of Mr. Parker's Encyclopedia of Kenpo, underneath the photos for the "Analogy of Bumper/Truck" it states that:

    "It is not the arm (bumper) alone that causes an effective strike, but the back up mass of the body (truck) as well as the arm."

    The truly educated never graduate.
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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Infinite Insights, Vol 4:

    BACK-UP MASS-- is a result of proper body alignment. When this occurs, the weight of your body positions itself in line with, and behind of, the action rendered. ...

    GRAVITATIONAL MARRIAGE-- is a concept that utilizes gravity to increase power. It is the uniting of the mind, breath and strength while droping the weight of the body. The merging of all the above,at the time the body drops, adds immeasureably to the force of the strike. ...

    d. employs the principle of "back-up-mass" where the force of the drop is backed by the weight of the mass...
    I couldn't find the analogy, but from the definitions given, it would seem to fit both.

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Quote Originally Posted by Gin-Gin2
    Actually, on page 4 of Mr. Parker's Encyclopedia of Kenpo, underneath the photos for the "Analogy of Bumper/Truck" it states that:

    "It is not the arm (bumper) alone that causes an effective strike, but the back up mass of the body (truck) as well as the arm."

    Thanks.

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan
    Thanks.
    No problem, Sir.

    If I may...also in the Encyclopedia, it defines Back Up Mass as: "The use of body weight that is directly behind the action that is taking place. As example, 1) A punch that is being delivered when the elbow is directly behind the fist, or 2) The bracing of one finger directly behind the other when delivering a two-finger chop to the throat, etc. Back up mass is greatly enhanced when proper body alignment is achieved. Body alignment gets mass into proper perspective and allows the body to take full advantage of channeling weight and energy while traveling in the same direction (directional harmony)."

    Although it does not specifically mention Gravitational Marriage, I agree with kenposatori that GM is Back Up Mass on a vertical plane.

    Respectfully,
    Gin-Gin
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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Quote Originally Posted by Gin-Gin2
    Although it does not specifically mention Gravitational Marriage, I agree with kenposatori that GM is Back Up Mass on a vertical plane.
    I don't know if I'd go that far, but there is certainly a close relationship. GM only acts in a downward direction. BUM can act in any direction, including pulling/away from. Another way to look at it is that GM relates to and works primarily in height, where BUM acts primarily in depth. While all the principles and concepts are inter-related, and can be found in and developed from each other, they are significantly different. At least, that is how I was taught.

    I am curiouse, though. Just from the discussions here, it appears that everyone is not taught the same. How does your school/organization view this?

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan
    I don't know if I'd go that far, but there is certainly a close relationship. GM only acts in a downward direction. BUM can act in any direction, including pulling/away from. Another way to look at it is that GM relates to and works primarily in height, where BUM acts primarily in depth. While all the principles and concepts are inter-related, and can be found in and developed from each other, they are significantly different. At least, that is how I was taught.

    I am curiouse, though. Just from the discussions here, it appears that everyone is not taught the same. How does your school/organization view this?

    Technically it's all inertia. The 3 power principles are used to describe the inertia generated by mass moving through the 3 dimensions that define physical space. Gravitational Marriage describes Inertia moving through the dimension of Height. Rotation is used to describe Inertia moving through the dimension of Width. Back Up Mass is used to define Inertia moving through the dimension of Depth. When you act on a diagonal you can attack and dominate multiple dimensions simultaneously.
    Tom Chase
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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Quote Originally Posted by kenposatori
    Back-up mass can be utilized in any diminsion, with essentially any weapon. Gravitational Marriage is just back up mass in the vertical plane, for ease of communication, one of Mr. Parker's truely great tools, was creating a language we could communicate with and utilize shared semantics.

    I was at a seminar of his in the mid 1980's when he utilized his index finger as "backup mass" for the slicing middle finger, just to make the point. Backup mass can be a component of Gravitational Marriage, but not all backup mass utilizes Gravitational Marriage.

    Now ain't that a mouthful, but evident once you think about it.

    -Michael
    I 100% agree.

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    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Quote Originally Posted by TChase
    Rotation is used to describe Inertia moving through the dimension of Width.
    I think you could rotate in other planes.

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    Default Re: February 2006 Principle Of The Month - Back Up Mass

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC
    I think you could rotate in other planes.
    How so? Please explain with an example.
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