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Thread: Deflecting Thunder

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    Default Deflecting Thunder

    Deflecting Thunder (defense against a right ball kick)
    • Step back with your right foot towards 5:00 assuming a lunge stance executing a left downward block (circle your left hand back up to check against any additional incoming action)
    • Springing off of your right foot execute a right ball kick to attacker’s groin
    • Execute a right rounding elbow smash to the attackers head while checking low for any possible incoming action with your left hand
    * Some Important Principles: borrowed force, torque, anatomical positioning, back up mass, point of origin

    When I first learned this technique I saw several similaritites in execution and principle to "Thrusting Salute." Some of the obvious differences would appear to be the opening stance (forward bow vs lunge) and the final strike (palm heel vs elbow.)

    I won't babble on about it (I know...shocking isn't it...) but will instead open the thread up for discussion.

    **oops...almost forgot...this is from the Orange Belt level
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Deflecting Thunder

    Deflecting Thunder (defense against a right ball kick)
    • Step back with your right foot towards 5:00 assuming a lunge stance executing a left downward block (circle your left hand back up to check against any additional incoming action)
    • I like the lunge here instead of a forward or neutral bow (I've learned Thrusting salute with both).
    • Seems to me the left should circle back up at the same time as you spring off the lunge- which should be very momentary itself.
    • Springing off of your right foot execute a right ball kick to attacker’s groin
    • Execute a right rounding elbow smash to the attackers head while checking low for any possible incoming action with your left hand
    • I think I'd still specifically target the jaw, and use whichever weapon gets it best in the particular situation. Consider what his posture is- you've just inducted him into the "Purple Triangle Club" (being discussed elsewhere on this site), which means his butt is droped, his back is arched and possibly bent forward a little at the waist. His hands probably went to the pain, so are down. His jaw is slack, mouth open, his eyes rolled back and seeing blackness any way.- So, his jaw is unprotected, he can't really see what you are doing any how, and if he does, he's not moving fast enough to do anything about it, it's just sitting there like a ball on a T-Ball pedestal, and it is hangin' loose- why would you hit any thing else???
    • * Some Important Principles: borrowed force, torque, anatomical positioning, back up mass, point of origin
    • The borrowed force is due to hios kick being forced to drop instead of plant. A lot of people think the borrowed force in TS is from his bending forward from your groin shot. He won't do as much of that as most martial artists think (I've had this argument with several "dummies", and I think Doc has commented on it somewhere also). Any way, this is one of the reasons I like your lunge stance in the first move here- it gets you off the chocks quicker with a better chance of nailing him before he's planted.
    Interesting changeup on Thrusting Salute.

    Dan C
    There are things that are worth knowing for their own sake, worth finding for the pure joy of discovery.

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    Default Re: Deflecting Thunder

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan View Post

    Springing off of your right foot execute a right ball kick to attacker’s groin

    Execute a right rounding elbow smash to the attackers head while checking low for any possible incoming action with your left hand

    Couple of things I like to concentrate on with Deflecting Thunder:

    1) Nailing the initial block. Too many folks make more of a wave with light contact in an effort to move off-line quickly. It must be a synchronized movement with good, solid contact on the block. You are blocking just as much to affect his zones as you are to nullify his kick. (I suspect this may be an issue with AK folks doing Thrusting Salute as well)

    2) Making sure you retract the kick. Too many folks deadleg into the opponent. Kenpo is about choices. When you deadleg you remove a choice you can make.

    3) The final elbow should incorporate full body torque. I utilize a push-drag type manuever to close the distance (our school has given it the nickname [the kenpo slide]. This allows me to keep the elbow tight and use my core to maximize the torque. My goal is to blast the opponent out of the space I forced him to land in when he tried to kick me. My target is the jaw hinge that I can strike with the front flat of the elbow or the front point of the elbow this a) strikes the head in the center of its mass and b) happens to be a very effective pressure point [hah gwahn]. Always train to be specific in your targets!

    Just some thoughts on Deflecting Thunder.

    Respects,
    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Institute
    www.trianglekenpo.com

    "I know Kenpo!" "Cool... do you know how to use it?"

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    Default Re: Deflecting Thunder

    Mr. Parsons, good points here about DF/TS.
    Quote Originally Posted by bdparsons View Post
    1) Nailing the initial block. Too many folks make more of a wave with light contact in an effort to move off-line quickly. It must be a synchronized movement with good, solid contact on the block. You are blocking just as much to affect his zones as you are to nullify his kick. (I suspect this may be an issue with AK folks doing Thrusting Salute as well)
    Since you've moved off line of the kick (primary defense against a kick is to get out of its way) I'd say it is more to control his dimensions- particularly width and depth- than about nullifying the kick. You don't really want to nullify it, either. You use the force and momentum he generates against him and force his plant where it sets him up.

    I find that throwing a minor block first with the right, then the left major block helps me with timeing, structure and power generation. Just be careful not to over extend the minor block (note to self, here).

    3) The final elbow should incorporate full body torque. I utilize a push-drag type manuever to close the distance (our school has given it the nickname [the kenpo slide]. This allows me to keep the elbow tight and use my core to maximize the torque.
    I like that.

    My target is the jaw hinge that I can strike with the front flat of the elbow or the front point of the elbow this a) strikes the head in the center of its mass and b) happens to be a very effective pressure point [hah gwahn]. Always train to be specific in your targets!
    Agreed here. The yellow in my post was quoting the writeup of this technique. Specific targeting is important, especially when you have such a beautiful target as is presented here! Thanks for the info on the pressure point.

    Dan C
    There are things that are worth knowing for their own sake, worth finding for the pure joy of discovery.

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    Default Re: Deflecting Thunder

    Specific targeting is always important, IMHO.

    While the initial block serves to ensure you do not get kicked, I think it also relates to anatomical positioning. It opens them up so you can get a good angle of entry for your kick. The same would be true of Thrusting Salute from my perspective. These two tech's are almost identical. The primary differences are in the initial stance (Forward Bow vs. Lunge) and the follow up strike (Elbow vs Palm Heel). Many of the principles taught in the two are pretty much the same though.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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