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Thread: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

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    Default Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    I am actually new to Kenpo, and I love it...While I’ve been in martial arts for a long time, this is my new adventure. As such, I am not bringing forth an expert opinion. Having said that, I believe if nothing else, I do bring a “fresh set of eyes” so to speak.
    It’s my opinion that if Kenpo wants to ever reclaim its prominence and popularity then schools should migrate towards a more modern expression of kenpo. Perhaps not in changing the art per say, but more in its packaging (i.e. no gi, remove some of the Kung-fuey flash, etc.) Think...the American version of Krav Maga. I for one would like to see that evolution and I believe the IKCA is the perfect vehicle for that. What are your thoughts? Blasphemy, or Innovation????
    Last edited by Brett; 01-06-2018 at 12:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    If that’s the case, then that’s really, really sad.
    And I didn’t mean to suggest that EPAK or any other systems would not work equally as well. Of course it would...
    I simply think the “condensed” ideology of IKCA would be a great self defense foundation (Practitioner Levels) if coupled with a separate workout curriculum (aka P90X-like), a traditional expression for kids (w/ Gi), and utilizing the EPAK self defense training for the advanced (Graduate Level) program. I’d love to see someone or some organization do something like that. I think in essence it would align an amazing, but currently stagnant art, with today’s MA culture. Just the humble opinion of a newbie, but mine none the less....

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    If that’s the case, then that’s really, really sad.
    And I didn’t mean to suggest that EPAK or any other systems would not work equally as well. Of course it would...
    I simply think the “condensed” ideology of IKCA would be a great self defense foundation (Practitioner Levels) if coupled with a separate workout curriculum (aka P90X-like), a traditional expression for kids (w/ Gi), and utilizing the EPAK self defense training for the advanced (Graduate Level) program. I’d love to see someone or some organization do something like that. I think in essence it would align an amazing, but currently stagnant art, with today’s MA culture. Just the humble opinion of a newbie, but mine none the less....
    well...it could work for some, and not for others. There is no reason to say that all kenpo needs to be centralized. Different flavors is a good thing.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    I am actually new to Kenpo, and I love it...While Iíve been in martial arts for a long time, this is my new adventure. As such, I am not bringing forth an expert opinion. Having said that, I believe if nothing else, I do bring a ďfresh set of eyesĒ so to speak.
    Itís my opinion that if Kenpo wants to ever reclaim its prominence and popularity then schools should migrate towards a more modern expression of kenpo. Perhaps not in changing the art per say, but more in its packaging (i.e. no gi, remove some of the Kung-fuey flash, etc.) Think...the American version of Krav Maga. I for one would like to see that evolution and I believe the IKCA is the perfect vehicle for that. What are your thoughts? Blasphemy, or Innovation????
    Well, in contrast to what you said, I don't care much if practitioners are wearing a gi or not, however, restoring the art's relevance as a modern system of self-defence is exactly about changing it on an expanded knowledge basis, in my view. That's the way Mr. Parker actually intended it - as an evolving system.

    Generally, the existing organizations seem to be quite content with their particular way of doing things, even though there seems to be a degree of openness to trying new or modified ways of doing things occasionally.

    There may be new organizations coming into existence over time, revolving around certain individuals with expanded thinking. I agree with the previous poster that not all Parker Kenpo needs to be the same.

    Anyhow, you brought up an interesting topic, IMO.

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    I am actually new to Kenpo, and I love it...While Iíve been in martial arts for a long time, this is my new adventure. As such, I am not bringing forth an expert opinion. Having said that, I believe if nothing else, I do bring a ďfresh set of eyesĒ so to speak.
    Itís my opinion that if Kenpo wants to ever reclaim its prominence and popularity then schools should migrate towards a more modern expression of kenpo. Perhaps not in changing the art per say, but more in its packaging (i.e. no gi, remove some of the Kung-fuey flash, etc.) Think...the American version of Krav Maga. I for one would like to see that evolution and I believe the IKCA is the perfect vehicle for that. What are your thoughts? Blasphemy, or Innovation????
    If you look at Ed Parkerís Kenpo Karate for what it really was Ė a business venture Ė then you realize that the IKCA was taking the next logical step. Distilling the self-defense, practical mantra of Kenpo into fewer techniques, and one master form, along with an easier at-home delivery platform. At the time it was derided, but now it has received at least a degree of acceptance. It is now not uncommon for many training systems to have supplementary video and online training modules. Now even Gracie Jiu Jitsu can be trained in the comfort of your own home. The competitors and naysayers have realized that if they want to compete on a business level they need to offer what the competitors offer, or go out of business. Itís not that different from what happens in a lot of businesses.

    Remember when there was a mom and pop video store on the street corner by the liquor store? Will I do. Then Blockbuster came along and ran many of them out of business. Then Netflix came along delivering movies to you, and then went into streaming effectively putting Blockbuster out of business. Netflix gave people what they wanted and put Blockbuster out of business. Now Netflix has to stay agile and respond to the threats of the day, or the same thing will happen to them. Amazon is certainly doing what they can to compete with Netflix and give the retail stores (not just the bookstores any more) a run for their money. It is the nature of business.

    The product that was Kenpo Karate still fits a certain niche, but it is changing, and shrinking in my opinion. Right about now, someone comes along and says that this doesnít apply to their Kenpo. Their Kenpo doesnít have holes. Their Kenpo isnít commercial. Their Kenpo works! To that I would say, Iím not talking about your Kenpo, or about anybodyís Kenpo for that matter, Iím talking about the business model of Kenpo Karate. I point it out, because that is what we are talking about in this thread. It is not so much about the adpatation, or evolution, of Kenpo itself as it is about updating the business delivery model to keep up to date with the times. You have to give the people what they want if you want to stay in business.

    You saw Mr. Parker do it by adding more forms, reduce the number of techniques per belt, add yellow belt, add stripes for brown and black belts, add weapons forms. Youíve seen commercial programs and schools add ground fighting or MMA type fighting to keep up with the times. A lot of the schools have added videos, YouTube channels, and facebook pages.

    There is an Okinawan Kenpo school not far from where I live that has already done what you are talking about and they did it years ago and they appear to be thriving. They kept a kids Kenpo program. For the adults they got rid of the uniforms. They added a huge exercise workout component. They then mixed their Kenpo, with FMA, BJJ, and a lot of Israeli self defense techniques. They still have ranks and tests and rewards but they donít wear the belts. Their classes are huge. Crowded with 20+ people with classes once or twice a day 6 days a week. Minimal to no sparring because most normal people donít like getting hurt. No forms, because those are boring.

    Does it work? Who cares! Itís a great business model with booming enrollment. The students are getting in shape and are having a great time. These are largely middle and upper class working professionals (i.e. people who can pay tuition) and attendance is roughly 60% female and 40% male based on my recollection. At the very lest there are a lot more women there then I see in most traditional martial arts programs. Itís the same demographic I see doing spinning class and Yoga at the local YMCA or LA Fitness.

    Now is it for me? Not really, no. It just doesnít feel like Kenpo, but Iím not the target market. Now my instructor back in Southern California is trying something. Over the years he has had adults gravitate much more to Boxing, Kickboxing, Cardio type classes and sometimes BJJ. The kids are still enrolling in droves for the Kenpo, but not so much the parents. Over the years he has added Boxing classes with professional Boxing coaches and fighters, Muay Thai programs with certified Kru, MMA training with mostly amateur and 1 or 2 professional competitors, and BJJ classes with brown and black belt Gracie Barra instructors. Now these are the classes that the adults most sign up for. The younger 20-something male crowd typically gravitate towards BJJ and MMA. The female and middle-aged tend to go more towards the boxing and kickboxing programs.

    Now he is starting a separate self-defense program open to everybody at the school. Now I havenít been back there lately to see one of these classes yet, but the way I envision it is basically as Kenpo in disguise. You get rid of the uniforms and the belts. You get rid of all the patches and stripes and bowing. You can integrate some footwork from boxing, the roundhouse and clinch work from Muay Thai, and some ground escapes and submissions from BJJ. You could work plenty of the Kenpo techniques but you donít have to call them that. You donít make anybody remember all the different names and you keep them simple. Maybe just 2-3 move techniques.

    You donít have to spar (much), but you can pressure test the techniques. You hopefully get a good mix of boxing, kickboxing, BJJ and Kenpo students. Of course certain people are going to have greater strengths and weaknesses, but you can just ďshut up and trainĒ so to speak. You donít have to worry about who has what belt, where people line up, which direction each part of the form is supposed to be facing and so forth. Iím actually pretty excited about this idea. Mostly because it will get more people interested in and training Kenpo. I love Kenpo and donít think it needs to change, but you need people to train with. Iíve found adult Kenpo classes to be rather sparse most places I go. If this idea can get more people training Kenpo Iím all for it. Now if it just turns into an aerobic pseudo-martial arts class like Iíve seen elsewhere, then count me out.

    Donít get me wrong. I like the forms. I like to spar. I actually kind of like those 9 move techniques with the cool-sounding names. But if the price of keeping those patches and uniforms, belts and stripes, and all those techniques, sets and forms is the dissolution, disappearance and death of Kenpo as we know it, then I say letís change! I still train Kenpo, but I train more jiujitsu these days. Why? Because it is much easier for me to find a dozen mature adults willing to train serious self-defense in a jiujitsu school then in a Kenpo school since Iíve moved across the country. That may not be true everywhere, but from what I have seen, I think it is the trend.

    If we keep going the way we are, Kenpo is going to go the way of the VHS tape, the dinosaur and all those Blockbuster stores. Sure, Doc and his students will still be secreted away some place with the curtains drawn drilling neutral bows and punch defenses until the middle of the night. But I if we are being honest with ourselves, a lot of our Kenpo schools are turning into Kiddy Karate schools with nothing even remotely resembling Kenpo about them. If changing the business of Kenpo can save Kenpo from going extinct then Iím all for it. Unless, it really is, as Luke Skywalker said, ďtime for the Jedi to end.Ē
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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    That is exactly why I have always said that martial arts is a poor mix with business.

    if the student/customer wants to learn martial arts, then they need to trust the instructor enough to follow their instruction.

    if the student/customer thinks they can dictate how they are taught, then they aren’t willing to do what is necessary to learn martial arts at a high quality. And that is where it all begins to break down.

    it is fascinating to me that students/customers of martial arts seem to think that they know best how to learn martial arts. When you enroll in a college course, you don’t get to walk in and dictate the curriculum or the teaching methodology to the professor. I struggled with trigonometric identities last summer. Guess what? They still showed up on the final and i was still responsible for my performance with them. They were the reason I ended the semester with a final grade of a B instead of an A.

    if you want to be a fine musician and enroll at Juilliard, you do what your professors tell you, and you work damn hard. If you want to tinker with music, you buy a cheap electric guitar, learn a couple power chords and some easy licks and you sit in your bedroom and make a lot of noise.

    when martial arts and business mix, very often the martial arts suffers heavily. But then I am not trying to make my living with martial arts, so if I don’t have a line of customers wrapped around the block looking to sign up, that’s ok with me.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    if the student/customer thinks they can dictate how they are taught, then they arenít willing to do what is necessary to learn martial arts at a high quality. And that is where it all begins to break down.
    I think this is an excellent point. Fine martial arts instruction does not usually mix well with a profitable business model. With time, in order for business to prosper, the quality suffers. The good instructors work very hard to give the students what they want, and at the same time keep their standards high, but in the end they almost certainly end up losing money in the process. I think it is possible to come up with innovative ways to teach the arts in order to keep the doors open and maintain the integrity of the art, but it is not easy. I think what the IKCA has done is, on the whole, quite commendable. They made distance learning respectable in the quarter century after Mr. Parker passed. That kind of innovation will be necessary to keep commercial martial arts a viable business in the next century.

    This is where I might go off on a rant about the tyranny of the almighty dollar, but then I remind myself that once upon a time I was a child in the 1980s taking karate and eventually kenpo. If it werenít for commercial schools I wouldnít be doing martial arts today. It would be great if we could come up with some way to transition more of the children into serious students when they get older, or take the casual adult students who stick around long enough and transition them into a more in depth study of the arts if there is interest. Then Iím not in the business of running a martial arts school so I donít have to lose too much sleep over this. At the same time, I have a certain fondness for Kenpo specifically, and the martial arts in general. I would like to think that there is a way to preserve the integrity of the art and at the same time pass it on to the next generation.
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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoMD View Post
    I think this is an excellent point. Fine martial arts instruction does not usually mix well with a profitable business model. With time, in order for business to prosper, the quality suffers. The good instructors work very hard to give the students what they want, and at the same time keep their standards high, but in the end they almost certainly end up losing money in the process. I think it is possible to come up with innovative ways to teach the arts in order to keep the doors open and maintain the integrity of the art, but it is not easy. I think what the IKCA has done is, on the whole, quite commendable. They made distance learning respectable in the quarter century after Mr. Parker passed. That kind of innovation will be necessary to keep commercial martial arts a viable business in the next century.

    This is where I might go off on a rant about the tyranny of the almighty dollar, but then I remind myself that once upon a time I was a child in the 1980s taking karate and eventually kenpo. If it weren’t for commercial schools I wouldn’t be doing martial arts today. It would be great if we could come up with some way to transition more of the children into serious students when they get older, or take the casual adult students who stick around long enough and transition them into a more in depth study of the arts if there is interest. Then I’m not in the business of running a martial arts school so I don’t have to lose too much sleep over this. At the same time, I have a certain fondness for Kenpo specifically, and the martial arts in general. I would like to think that there is a way to preserve the integrity of the art and at the same time pass it on to the next generation.
    you make some good points, and I am certainly not against innovation in teaching. My disgruntlement comes when the student dictates to the teacher what he wants, and the teacher bends to it with the result that quality suffers. Teachers need to convince the students that quality should be what they want, and some things are not compatible with that.

    When quality is allowed to suffer because of the fear of losing students and thereby losing ones livlihood, then there is a real problem that ought to be obvious. That is pretty much the definition of sell-out and it’s the reason why I feel that for the most part, maybe earning ones living through teaching martial arts is not a good idea. It is easy to become desperate for students and gradually lower the bar. One little exception leads to another and then another. Eventually the exceptions become the norm and nobody is held to a high standard.

    now, my comments are not aimed at the IKCA. I only know a little bit about their approach and over the years I have come to appreciate a less-is-more approach. I remain skeptical about the viability of video instruction as the primary or only method of instruction, but I have no comment on their overall curriculum or training methods. I just don’t know enough about it to have an opinion.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Awesome. I literally found myself shaking my head in agreement, or thinking...”Great point, never thought of that”...with each of these responses. Thank you guys for that...

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    I believe the actual numbers of Americans regularly participating in Martial Arts has dropped dramatically. This includes all arts, all styles, and all qualities.

    I'm wondering now, and have been for a little while, if it is because of what is visible to us in mass media.

    When Parker was on I Love Lucy, and the Rockford Files ... karate was shown as superior to boxing. It was shown as cool and mystical and overpowering.

    But look at the fights in media today ... It's so far beyond kenpo, or any other reasonable martial art. Self defense in media today is about comic book characters. I just watched 'Atomic Blonde', and I really enjoyed the fight scene. The little lady's first strike was, on several occasions, a good hard kick to the knee. But the hero, and all the bad guys, when on much longer than a normal human being would have been able to. Pick your action movie ... if the fights are realistic, the fighters aren't being dropped with the elbows to the head, or knees to the head, that we see happen for real in the cage. Or ... we get wire work. Fighters flying through the air in unrealistic positions.

    I remember when Crouching Tiger came out ... first thing I said to my kenpo instructor is "At what belt do I learn to fly?"

    The only thing keeping martial arts going today is children learning "discipline". Children should not learn martial arts. Teach them discipline in the 4h or scouts or in their religious institution.

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Its "people" who are changing in general. When I first got into LE over 20 years ago, just about every male had been in a fight before starting that occupation. Now, when I talk to the new guys, the vast majority of them have never been in any kind of fight.

    There is always the stat that "MMA is the fastest growing sport", which is true for SPECTATORS, it does not hold true that all these new people are signing up to train hard in an mma style gym.

    When I watch the movie, "Demolition Man" and how their society was, I think it was very prophetic in some ways where we are headed.

    Rant aside, the IKCA can be a great vehicle for many people. It puts the focus back on the basics and having strong stances and basics before learning lots of cool looking techniques. It also places much "burden" on the student to take the examples given (55 techs) and to learn how to create their own to fit their needs. This is opposite, of say the Tracy approach, that has a technique for just about every thing you can think of. Some people want things spelled out and others want to do it on their own.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward View Post
    I believe the actual numbers of Americans regularly participating in Martial Arts has dropped dramatically. This includes all arts, all styles, and all qualities.
    I suspect youíre right, but I would love to see a reference if youíve got one. Some of it is going, of course. To depend on how you gather the statistics and what you count as a martial art. It would be interesting to see how it varies by country and demographics. I donít know that there is anyone out there gathering hard statistics on that kind of thing though. Perhaps some of the big TKD groups or martial arts marketing website people have some idea since it is their business.

    I agree with Flying Crane, though, that business and martial arts arenít a good mix. I donít think there is any unmixing them, unfortunately. Even if you are not for profit, most places are required to at least collect dues to ay for overhead and equipment. Even if you arenít in it for the money, you have to compete with those who are. I donít think it is something that we can undo. There are probably ways to make it work better though.

    Unfortunately, the number of adults who are willing to pay good money for quality martial arts instruction is not enough in itself to keep most places open, let alone make a profit. You have to add childrenís programs. You have to add black belt clubs. You have to introduce contracts. Hire marketing, bill collection, and website people. Throw in some cardio kickboxing, birthday parties, expensive belt tests, after school karate ďdaycareĒ complete with shuttle service and now youíve got what we have today.

    The problem is that at the end of that, a lot of these places (not all) arenít even teaching Kenpo anymore. Now if somebody wants to come along and reverse engineer it, so that you can put Kenpo back in the karate so to speak, Iím all for it!
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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoMD View Post
    I would love to see a reference if youíve got one.
    I typed "How many American Practice Martial Arts" into the Google machine.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...us-since-2006/

    Other choices from the result set will vary. Your mileage may vary.

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward View Post
    I typed "How many American Practice Martial Arts" into the Google machine.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...us-since-2006/

    Other choices from the result set will vary. Your mileage may vary.

    United States Martial Arts Demographics
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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoMD View Post
    I suspect you’re right, but I would love to see a reference if you’ve got one. Some of it is going, of course. To depend on how you gather the statistics and what you count as a martial art. It would be interesting to see how it varies by country and demographics. I don’t know that there is anyone out there gathering hard statistics on that kind of thing though. Perhaps some of the big TKD groups or martial arts marketing website people have some idea since it is their business.

    I agree with Flying Crane, though, that business and martial arts aren’t a good mix. I don’t think there is any unmixing them, unfortunately. Even if you are not for profit, most places are required to at least collect dues to ay for overhead and equipment. Even if you aren’t in it for the money, you have to compete with those who are. I don’t think it is something that we can undo. There are probably ways to make it work better though.

    Unfortunately, the number of adults who are willing to pay good money for quality martial arts instruction is not enough in itself to keep most places open, let alone make a profit. You have to add children’s programs. You have to add black belt clubs. You have to introduce contracts. Hire marketing, bill collection, and website people. Throw in some cardio kickboxing, birthday parties, expensive belt tests, after school karate “daycare” complete with shuttle service and now you’ve got what we have today.

    The problem is that at the end of that, a lot of these places (not all) aren’t even teaching Kenpo anymore. Now if somebody wants to come along and reverse engineer it, so that you can put Kenpo back in the karate so to speak, I’m all for it!
    Another option is to simply not do any of that. Teach out of the garage/basement/back yard, keep the group small, collect a fair fee to cover actual expenses and view any extra as pocket money and not your livlihood. Keep a day job. No need for contracts or collection agencies or karate daycare for toddlers.

    in this way you have control over what you teach. Anyone who wants something that is not compatible with what you teach, is welcome to go elsewhere. There is no fear of losing a student, so no need to bend the rules or lower the bar in an attempt to keep a student.

    teach quality martial arts. Don’t try to build an empire. If you have a handful of students over the years who become really good and are able to carry it through to the next generation, then you have done well.
    Michael


    de gustibus non disputante est.
    Negative Douche Bag Number One

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    Its "people" who are changing in general. When I first got into LE over 20 years ago, just about every male had been in a fight before starting that occupation. Now, when I talk to the new guys, the vast majority of them have never been in any kind of fight.

    There is always the stat that "MMA is the fastest growing sport", which is true for SPECTATORS, it does not hold true that all these new people are signing up to train hard in an mma style gym.

    When I watch the movie, "Demolition Man" and how their society was, I think it was very prophetic in some ways where we are headed.

    Rant aside, the IKCA can be a great vehicle for many people. It puts the focus back on the basics and having strong stances and basics before learning lots of cool looking techniques. It also places much "burden" on the student to take the examples given (55 techs) and to learn how to create their own to fit their needs. This is opposite, of say the Tracy approach, that has a technique for just about every thing you can think of. Some people want things spelled out and others want to do it on their own.
    I want to believe you, but some of the worst neutral bows I've seen have been in IKCA vids. In fairness, it's not just them...seems to be, everywhere I look, NB's have duck feet. The idea of "kick your heels out and sit down" is vanishing.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    I want to believe you, but some of the worst neutral bows I've seen have been in IKCA vids. In fairness, it's not just them...seems to be, everywhere I look, NB's have duck feet. The idea of "kick your heels out and sit down" is vanishing.
    You could be very right on that. I am going by the basics dvd that I watched from them where SGM Sullivan spent alot of time on a proper NB, with shoulder width how to check it, proper line of heal/toe, etc.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    You could be very right on that. I am going by the basics dvd that I watched from them where SGM Sullivan spent alot of time on a proper NB, with shoulder width how to check it, proper line of heal/toe, etc.
    the problem with video instruction if done without quality face-to-face time with the instructor, as we have discussed many times, is that it places responsibility on the student to catch and correct his own errors. When learning a new physical skill as a beginner, the student is in no position to effectively do that. No matter how high the quality of the instruction in the video, no matter how thorough and complete the instructions, it cannot get past that flaw. Direct interaction with a good instructor is crucial to learning the skill properly.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    the problem with video instruction if done without quality face-to-face time with the instructor, as we have discussed many times, is that it places responsibility on the student to catch and correct his own errors. When learning a new physical skill as a beginner, the student is in no position to effectively do that. No matter how high the quality of the instruction in the video, no matter how thorough and complete the instructions, it cannot get past that flaw. Direct interaction with a good instructor is crucial to learning the skill properly.
    IF a student chooses to study with them, they do a very in depth video breakdown of you performing the stances/techniques etc. from multiple angles and point this stuff out for correction. Not better than face to face, but there is feedback. But, like I said before, it will always depend on the student. I have seen students "self-correct" and be very aware and can also learn from video. I have also seen students with excellent knowledgeable instructors who still couldn't change what they were doing no matter how many times the instructor tried to correct it.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    IF a student chooses to study with them, they do a very in depth video breakdown of you performing the stances/techniques etc. from multiple angles and point this stuff out for correction. Not better than face to face, but there is feedback. But, like I said before, it will always depend on the student. I have seen students "self-correct" and be very aware and can also learn from video. I have also seen students with excellent knowledgeable instructors who still couldn't change what they were doing no matter how many times the instructor tried to correct it.
    Personally I have zero faith in the video feedback. Just because an error is pointed out doesn’t mean it will get corrected, when the student continues to practice on his own. He may believe he has made the correction, and be unaware that the problem persists. People need a teacher who can physically move their body parts into the correct positions, before they begin to get it right. And that correction needs to happen over and over, as the errors are being made. Checking in with the instructor once a month (or whatever the schedule is) via video just doesn’t cut it. There are subtleties that a student will overlook, thinking he has it correct, but it’s still wrong.

    while there may be exceptional students who can be successful, most people are not that student. Designing a training method for those few exceptional students doesn’t make any sense. I simply don’t buy it.

    in my opinion, those most likely to be successful with it are people who are already well trained and skilled. If they already understand a body of compatible fundamentals and have built that foundation, then they could learn the patterns and would understand how to apply the foundational principles and skills within those patterns. But the irony is that these are people who don’t actually need this additional training. These people already have the skills, and arguably they have no need to learn another system or curriculum. Whether they simply want to is another issue, but I suggest they have no actual need for it.
    Michael


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