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Thread: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    You can be working out in a class of, let's say, 20 students for quite awhile sometimes without any instructor noticing that you are messing up some minor detail. In Karate as well as Aikido, every so often, it was actually me seeking out them when there was something less than clear.

    Video instruction is like a private lesson in this regard: You have the instructor's undivided attention. They will be in a better position to notice and correct any subtle mistake you might be making. Not least because they can simply rewind what you are doing, as you can likewise review their corrections until you really got them down. And you can ask questions rather easily.

    Of course, if the student already has a background in a related system, that might speed things up. However, I would not say that such a student would not "need" the instruction anyway. They may need the additional information as much (or as little) as any stark beginner. Be it to expand their own game, learn how to deal with an opponent from a different style, or whatnot. It actually happens a lot that somebody with a basis in another art shows up in your studio. It's called cross training ( ) and tends to make you much more versatile as a fighter.

    There is a growing trend towards self-study in many fields, not only in martial arts. I think this offers great new possibilities, as restrictions of locality and time become much less of an issue. But in martial arts, it should be backed up by actually meeting your instructor every once in awhile, if at all possible.

    Welcome to the 21st century.

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by Star Dragon View Post
    You can be working out in a class of, let's say, 20 students for quite awhile sometimes without any instructor noticing that you are messing up some minor detail. In Karate as well as Aikido, every so often, it was actually me seeking out them when there was something less than clear.

    Video instruction is like a private lesson in this regard: You have the instructor's undivided attention. They will be in a better position to notice and correct any subtle mistake you might be making. Not least because they can simply rewind what you are doing, as you can likewise review their corrections until you really got them down. And you can ask questions rather easily.

    Of course, if the student already has a background in a related system, that might speed things up. However, I would not say that such a student would not "need" the instruction anyway. They may need the additional information as much (or as little) as any stark beginner. Be it to expand their own game, learn how to deal with an opponent from a different style, or whatnot. It actually happens a lot that somebody with a basis in another art shows up in your studio. It's called cross training ( ) and tends to make you much more versatile as a fighter.

    There is a growing trend towards self-study in many fields, not only in martial arts. I think this offers great new possibilities, as restrictions of locality and time become much less of an issue. But in martial arts, it should be backed up by actually meeting your instructor every once in awhile, if at all possible.

    Welcome to the 21st century.
    Video instruction is nothing at all like a private lesson. And what you are describing still puts responsibility on the student to correct his own errors, which is unrealistic. It is simply a bad bargain that leads to mimicry with shallow understanding and a lot of subtle errors. It is a bad idea.

    if the student who already has a solid background still needs further instruction, then he needs it from a real teacher. A video is a poor substitute.

    as for cross training, it is not automatically a good thing. It might be. It might not be. It depends.

    as for self study, it can be done for some subjects. It can be done to a superficial level for other subjects. Again, it depends.

    in my opinion, self-study for many subjects, including martial arts, will only lead to a superficial level of skill and understanding. To reach a medium or high level requires regular training, face-to-face, with a good teacher.

    i think a lot of people want to believe in a short cut. That is self-deception.
    Michael


    de gustibus non disputante est.
    Negative Douche Bag Number One

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    I am actually new to Kenpo, and I love it...While I’ve been in martial arts for a long time, this is my new adventure. As such, I am not bringing forth an expert opinion. Having said that, I believe if nothing else, I do bring a “fresh set of eyes” so to speak.
    It’s my opinion that if Kenpo wants to ever reclaim its prominence and popularity then schools should migrate towards a more modern expression of kenpo. Perhaps not in changing the art per say, but more in its packaging (i.e. no gi, remove some of the Kung-fuey flash, etc.) Think...the American version of Krav Maga. I for one would like to see that evolution and I believe the IKCA is the perfect vehicle for that. What are your thoughts? Blasphemy, or Innovation????
    You did say you were new right?
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    New to Kenpo sir, yes.... I do have about 30 years of experience in Judo and Traditional Japanese Jujitsu. I am really enjoying learning Kenpo though... I just think if it wants to ever thrive again it needs some new cloths and a facelift... It’s entirely possible I’m wrong, but I don’t think so.

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    New to Kenpo sir, yes.... I do have about 30 years of experience in Judo and Traditional Japanese Jujitsu. I am really enjoying learning Kenpo though... I just think if it wants to ever thrive again it needs some new cloths and a facelift... It’s entirely possible I’m wrong, but I don’t think so.
    Your problem is one of perspective sir. It would appear your exposure to what you call "Kenpo" is rather limited. Kenpo is one of the most diverse arts/style/ideas on the planet, and you cannot speak of it in broad terms as If it is a single entity. What you call "Kenpo" I might call crap and vice versa.

    I would suggest you keep the discussion to your impressions of what you have seen and experienced and examine the merits of the methodology you're familiar with, rather than the name "Kenpo" in general. And while this is a "Kenpo Forum," the diversity of background and methods of the many knowledgeable practitioners here might surprise you. Don't fall into the trap of thinking there is one "Kenpo," because that doesn't exist and never has.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    New to Kenpo sir, yes.... I do have about 30 years of experience in Judo and Traditional Japanese Jujitsu. I am really enjoying learning Kenpo though... I just think if it wants to ever thrive again it needs some new cloths and a facelift... It’s entirely possible I’m wrong, but I don’t think so.
    You are, but that's OK. You're not the first, nor the last. Some of them even call themselves "Kenpo" people.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Well, I defer to the experts... and I definitely deem you to be that.... Of course, I mean no disrespect regarding a subject I can only attest to having what some might call a surface knowledge.

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Well, I defer to the experts... and I definitely deem you to be that.... Of course, I mean no disrespect regarding a subject I can only attest to having what some might call a surface knowledge.
    Please, never thought otherwise other than an honest observation sir. You're new to the "swamp" so I thought I'd give you a heads up.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    I too was a bit of a nay sayer as far as the video instruction I've been practicing the arts mainly Jiu jitsu for some 40 years and owning a dojo I too had reservations, but having gone threw the process I can honestly say it was a wonderful experience! The critique dvds that you receive back with corrections are very detailed, but they go even futher if there is something that you still cant get right the video instructors are always there to do supplemental vids though youtube and or skype ,but make no mistakes if you haven't fixed the problem buy the time you test again they will know it and you will not progress to the next belt. they have this process down pat!! I agree its not for everybody to learn this way, but for people with whom for one reason or anther cannot go to a brick and mortar school its a wonderful way to get Kenpo from a very reliable source.

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by westbayJJ View Post
    I too was a bit of a nay sayer as far as the video instruction I've been practicing the arts mainly Jiu jitsu for some 40 years and owning a dojo I too had reservations, but having gone threw the process I can honestly say it was a wonderful experience! The critique dvds that you receive back with corrections are very detailed, but they go even futher if there is something that you still cant get right the video instructors are always there to do supplemental vids though youtube and or skype ,but make no mistakes if you haven't fixed the problem buy the time you test again they will know it and you will not progress to the next belt. they have this process down pat!! I agree its not for everybody to learn this way, but for people with whom for one reason or anther cannot go to a brick and mortar school its a wonderful way to get Kenpo from a very reliable source.
    What, in my opinion, makes your experience so valuable is your vast prior experience in the arts. Had you been an inexperienced newbie, it would have made a significant difference in how you receive and inculcate the information sir. I've always said, the best practitioners of "Kenpo" are those who bring with them a significant background in other traditional arts, and that is even over and above many brick and mortar Kenpo schools. Oddly enough, this methodology is the genesis of how Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate was supposed to be presented ad proliferated, through the efforts of experienced martial artists coupled with Mr. Parkers' concepts.
    Last edited by Doc; 03-14-2018 at 01:06 AM.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    What, in my opinion, makes your experience so valuable is your vast prior experience in the arts. Had you been an inexperienced newbie, it would have made a significant difference in how you receive and inculcate the information sir. I've always said, the best practitioners of "Kenpo" are those who bring with them a significant background in other traditional arts, and that is even over and above many brick and mortar Kenpo schools. Oddly enough, this methodology is the genesis of how Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate was supposed to be presented ad proliferated, through the efforts of experienced martial artists coupled with Mr. Parkers' concepts.
    Hi Doc,

    What does Kenpo have to offer experienced traditional martial artists, in your view? What benefits can they derive from 'transcribing' their background to a Kenpo format?

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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by Star Dragon View Post
    Hi Doc,

    What does Kenpo have to offer experienced traditional martial artists, in your view? What benefits can they derive from 'transcribing' their background to a Kenpo format?
    Super question sir. The modern incantation of Kenpo hasn't a lot to offer on the physical side, and this was acknowledged by Mr. Parker. Recruiting accomplished martial artist from all disciplines formed the foundation for his 1st generation of students for that era. Mr. Parker's break with tradition with his branded Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate was on a conceptual level.

    Utilizing established and disciplined, and more importantly, effective black belts meant he didn't have to teach basics, even though he cautioned students to examine previous existing basics, and freed him to teach his black belts how to think and approach the arts to make what they did more effective in street self-defense scenarios. He urged people to not get so caught up in the "culture" of their previous arts that they missed the "American" point-of-view that strayed away from personal discipline with an emphasis on survival in reality. He felt the cultural proclivities and accouterments had their place, but felt anything that inhibited survival on the streets should be either jettisoned or placed in its proper cultural place.

    Traditional martial artist, (especially in those days), were usually hard-nosed and much more disciplined than today's product. Additionally, they brought with them a wealth of experience and perspectives still not seen in more eclectic styles today. Using a food analogy, these guys come from a rich culinary background, where many modern martial artists are more of the "fast food" variety.

    With no intent to offend anyone, "men were men," who created their own "safe spaces" and accepted responsibility for their own actions on and off the mat. Many were ex-military and had a broader perspective of the world in general, and the physicality of combat in particular. They didn't train for belts, they trained to train and the camaraderie and personal challenges to overcome meant something to them and they took pride in who they were, not what belt they wore.

    This is why, in my opinion, traditionalist do so well in Kenpo Karate. Those who are already physically successful, are freed to think and examine outside the box of the cultural confines of nationalized arts and embrace the newly found freedom of being the "master" of your own fate, and being responsible for your own success. Newbies think success is getting the belt. Those from Traditionalist backgrounds no better.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: Is the IKCA the perfect vehicle for a modern expression of Kenpo????

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    I am actually new to Kenpo, and I love it...While I’ve been in martial arts for a long time, this is my new adventure. As such, I am not bringing forth an expert opinion. Having said that, I believe if nothing else, I do bring a “fresh set of eyes” so to speak.
    It’s my opinion that if Kenpo wants to ever reclaim its prominence and popularity then schools should migrate towards a more modern expression of kenpo. Perhaps not in changing the art per say, but more in its packaging (i.e. no gi, remove some of the Kung-fuey flash, etc.) Think...the American version of Krav Maga. I for one would like to see that evolution and I believe the IKCA is the perfect vehicle for that. What are your thoughts? Blasphemy, or Innovation????
    Whats good about the IKCA material is that it gives a great base to start with. 60 techniques from Yellow - Black and one standardized form that has been put to video keeps everyone pretty standard. what i found with the IKCA is that they have innovated in a few other ways besides being one of the first Martial arts distance learning programs.

    a few of those being:

    always looking to canalize the techniques when and make changes when applicable. they have just filmed a bunch of supplemental material to give updates to make the techniques better from 30 years of intelligent members doing the material.

    Required Blending and borrowing for all black belt test. makes the practitioner evaluate the best expressio0n of there kenpo to add to the existing techniques.

    the triathlon - a event used within the organization to work the spontaneity of the practitioners in the Semi Circle and the Rear escape line. also they have the dummy drill portion of the event that makes the student actually hit a solid object and get the experience of contact with the only repercussions being that you will become extremely tired from the intensity and the contact.

    One thing has remained standard for all black belt testing and that is Mr. Sullivan evaluates them personally. nobody receives the rank without his approval.

    so you achieve the rank of 1st degree blackbelt with the IKCA, nobody puts any resistance with you going out and training in either EPAK, Tracys, 5.0 or even another style of martial arts all together. i myself went out and trained boxing, kickboxing submission grappling as well as tracys, and EPAK.

    i found the IKCA material was a grate starting point for my journey.

    Hope this Helped.

    Andy

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