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Thread: MT: Rank From Outside Your Art

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    Default MT: Rank From Outside Your Art

    Rank From Outside Your Art
    By MJS - Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:41:01 GMT

    ====================

    What are your thoughts on getting rank from someone outside of your main art? In other words, here is a hypothetical situation. Lets say you're ranked a 5th in Parker Kenpo. Something happens to your instructor, you leave the org. ,etc. Next time someone sees you, you're walking around with a 6th on your waist. When questioned, you state that you got your rank from someone outside of the art of Kenpo altogether or you received it from a different branch of Kenpo, ie: Tracy.

    Do you think that this is right? Should you accept rank from someone outside your group? Should you have sought out another teacher from your original art?

    Let the discussion begin!

    Mike


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    Default Re: MT: Rank From Outside Your Art

    We've all seen it happen. Where it becomes BS is when, say, a Kenpoist goes outside of the Kenpo systems for further rank.

    Like someone else said, Kenpo is Kempo is Kenpo. Besides, from what I've heard, the higher in black you go, promotions are based more on contribution to the art and not necessarily new material.

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    Default Re: MT: Rank From Outside Your Art

    Quote Originally Posted by MT Post Bot View Post
    Lets say you're ranked a 5th in Parker Kenpo. Something happens to your instructor, you leave the org. ,etc. Next time someone sees you, you're walking around with a 6th on your waist. When questioned, you state that you got your rank from someone outside of the art of Kenpo altogether or you received it from a different branch of Kenpo, ie: Tracy.

    Do you think that this is right? Should you accept rank from someone outside your group? Should you have sought out another teacher from your original art?

    Let the discussion begin!

    Mike


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    MartialTalk.com Post Bot - Kenpo Feed
    I know someone who was promoted to 6th Degree in Kenpo from someone who has never taken a single Kenpo lesson in his life. I also witnessed an 8th Degree Kenpo promotion from someone who did not study Kenpo. I disagree completely with it.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: MT: Rank From Outside Your Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    I know someone who was promoted to 6th Degree in Kenpo from someone who has never taken a single Kenpo lesson in his life. I also witnessed an 8th Degree Kenpo promotion from someone who did not study Kenpo. I disagree completely with it.
    I agree with you 100% about the examples you gave but I think the original thread was directed more toward promotions within different Kenpo lineages/associations.

    Personally, I think in order for someone to be promoted to a higher rank in Kenpo, the promoting authority should be of Kenpo orgin. To have TKD people promoting Kenpo people is absurd.

    What's that say about the World Soke Council and organizations of the same practice?

    On the other hand, promotions within the Kenpo community have indeed "crossed party lines" since the death of EPSr. It's the only way Kenpo seniors have to be promoted. Is it wrong? I don't think so. They've all come from the same pool of water. They have the same Kenpo DNA structure, to an extent. But, when you have a 5th black Kenpo guy going to an "independent" or TKD or Japanese/Okinawan organization to get 6th black....well, he's still a Kenpo 5th black. It just means the peers of his own "practice" wouldn't give it to him.

    We westerners have created our own smelly beds. Now we have to sleep in it.

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    Default Re: MT: Rank From Outside Your Art

    I think before someone gets promoted in another system, style, or organization they should be able to demonstrate adequate knowledge of the curriculum, as well as the level of skill that is associated with the rank. I do not agree with the granting of "honorary" rank because it cheapens the meaning behind attaining it.
    My 0.02
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: MT: Rank From Outside Your Art

    How many people above 5th black have tested for 6th. At some point in time the body will start to deteriate. You will only get so fast, time is the enemy. It is about what you give back.
    Brad Marshall SP
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    Default Re: MT: Rank From Outside Your Art

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    How many people above 5th black have tested for 6th. At some point in time the body will start to deteriate. You will only get so fast, time is the enemy. It is about what you give back.
    I'll respectfully disagree.

    Sure the body breaks down and is not able to do the same things it once did. But there's nothing wrong with a walk-through. I mean, if you are testing for a specific rank, should you not be required to show the testing authority you still know the lower material (if there is such a thing as "lower material")? I don't feel anyone should be bestowed a rank without showing a proficiency of some level. It's easy to show if you own a studio and actively teach but what about the guy that doesn't do it full-time? You gonna just give it to him cause he's been around a while? I dunno. And if I'm just a "student", what should I have to give back? Other than to myself, I shouldn't feel compelled to "give" anything to the Kenpo community. My Kenpo is mine and that is that, regardless if I'm testing for 2nd brown or 6th black.

    I do see what you're saying about the age thing, and feel it every day at just 29. But even I better be able to walk on the mat and prove I am worthy of the rank I am about to wear representing my system. Too many people are not doing that today.

    Happy Holidays!

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    Default Re: MT: Rank From Outside Your Art

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoRoach View Post
    I'll respectfully disagree.

    Sure the body breaks down and is not able to do the same things it once did. But there's nothing wrong with a walk-through. I mean, if you are testing for a specific rank, should you not be required to show the testing authority you still know the lower material (if there is such a thing as "lower material")? I don't feel anyone should be bestowed a rank without showing a proficiency of some level. It's easy to show if you own a studio and actively teach but what about the guy that doesn't do it full-time? You gonna just give it to him cause he's been around a while? I dunno. And if I'm just a "student", what should I have to give back? Other than to myself, I shouldn't feel compelled to "give" anything to the Kenpo community. My Kenpo is mine and that is that, regardless if I'm testing for 2nd brown or 6th black.

    I do see what you're saying about the age thing, and feel it every day at just 29. But even I better be able to walk on the mat and prove I am worthy of the rank I am about to wear representing my system. Too many people are not doing that today.

    Happy Holidays!
    Thank you for your post.
    It is safe to say that most people will test up to 3rd Black, or even 5th Black. I know I tested for 5th Black. However there comes a point in time when at that rank there is no question if you know how to do delayed sword, or one of the many versions of it. There also comes a time when the question is can you teach it. When Im 90 I may not be able to do delayed sword, but as long as my mind and body work, I should be able to convey it to others. As far as giving back is concerned. It is the primary responsibilty to provide the training to those whom will some day replace us. The upper ranks not only show how long they have been in the art but what they have given back. If you have ever taught a class, then you have given back. If you have ever been the ( dummy/ uke) you have given back.

    Just by posting on this site you have given back. The question becomes what impact does your giving have on others?

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    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

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    Default Re: MT: Rank From Outside Your Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    I know someone who was promoted to 6th Degree in Kenpo from someone who has never taken a single Kenpo lesson in his life. I also witnessed an 8th Degree Kenpo promotion from someone who did not study Kenpo. I disagree completely with it.
    Haha!

    Let me tell you two stories about men who got their "rank" from outside their arts.

    I once saw a man with two friends who have Ph.D.s promote him to 5th dan. Neither of those two men were experts. But they were his friends.

    I saw another man throw a tournament, and at the tournament he had his board of directors promote him to 9th dan.

    He claims much from Al Tracy as far as rank goes, and he used to be a good tournament fighting (with the help of some nose candy).

    Al told me that "expert" was only a second, and the rest was ego induced.

    He's been out-of-business for 6-7 years now.

    Again, funny to behold.

    And I do agree with Jaime. I'm 100% against it, in both of the above situations and circumstances.

    Now, change those circumstances, and talk about Doc Ron, or Ed Parker, or Al Tracy...

    ....those are DIFFERENT circumstances.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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