MT: Overkill

[MT Post Bot]

Overkill
By MJS - Fri, 25 May 2007 16:28:33 GMT

====================

If we look at a good portion of the techniques in the Kenpo and Kajukenbo systems, we see some pretty brutal stuff. Eye gouges, arm breaks, hits to the groin, etc. to name a few. In todays world, people don't hesitate to throw a law suit at you, even if they were in the wrong.

So, this brings me to my question: Do you feel that the techniques are too much? I'm not necessarily talking about the extensions, but the base technique itself. Do you think twice before you execute a technique? Do you modify anything so it fits into a lesser category of being brutal?

Thoughts?

Mike


Read More...


------------------------------------
MartialTalk.com Post Bot - Kenpo Feed

[sifuroy]

Anyone involved in the Martial Arts knows that you have to be able to judge the Gravity of the situation. You must decide if a situation is Life threatening and act accordingly. This is often going to be a split second decision and you have to be right. It is still better to be judged by twelve than carried by
six. Keep that in mind!!

I am most Respectfully,
sifuroy

[Black St1300]

My take(in my limited perspective) is this:
In defense of myself, I would go to a 4 or 5, on a scale of 10...To me, I should be able to get the hell away from almost any altercation without excessive violence...
If my children or wife were involved, however...15...possibly even 20...That's WHY I train, that's why I study...
I don't know if this makes any sense...hopefully so...
If not, I'll try to clarify tomorrow, after I've slept...

[RDCParker]

I agree with sifuroy. I could see if you were trying to break up a fight, or be a do-good-er and stop a shoplifter, then you should exercise much restraint (that is, IF you get involved at all). But in defense of yourself and your life, or protecting those that can't protect themselves, I would definitely go all out until they hit the ground. Let the jury judge me later if it comes to that.

But in my experiences over the years, I've learned that the police are very understanding in most situations. As long as you aren't stomping the attacker while he's incapacitated or something just outrageous like that, then the police will almost always side with you. As martial artists, we are trained to defend ourselves, but with that also comes training on how to discipline ourselves. Discipline also involves restraint, knowing when to stop or say no. We should exercise that as much as our kicks and punches.

[Brother John]

Anyone involved in the Martial Arts knows that you have to be able to judge the Gravity of the situation. You must decide if a situation is Life threatening and act accordingly. This is often going to be a split second decision and you have to be right. It is still better to be judged by twelve than carried by
six. Keep that in mind!!

I am most Respectfully,
sifuroy

That's right.
PLUS: Think of it this way. Usually, the first one or two strikes in our American Kenpo SD-Techs should be able to end the fight. I don't know how many times I've had a student say "WOW....that'd end it right away, then there's all those other shots"... OR "They wouldn't even be there for those last few hits!"
Maybe not.
But remember, WHY do we train to defend ourselves? Do we train to defeat someone that is smaller/weaker and less able to fight than ourselves? Someone that's less ruthless than ourselves or less athletic?
not I.
I train for the ruthless, Large/powerful, street-fight'n experienced THUG (plus a friend or two). I train for the idiot on crack who won't feel much. The first two shots might not get'm. The next few? much better odds.
BESIDES: Combat IS chaos. What if the first few shots aren't that good? What IF taken unawares or when I'm at a decidedly disadvantageous place/time...etc? I need back up shots, I need shots that'll take out the behemoth.
I'm not a small guy. I'm a little muscular and can look kinda intimidating to some. (I've been told that I look like "Stone Cold Steve Austin & Goldberg got together and had an Ugly baby) I walk confidently and look people in the eye. IF someone is going to try to harm me, I'd bet that they feel they can pull it off.....that it's a worthwhile gamble to them at least. I'm not gonna be jumped by Erkle, Screach or Pee-Wee Herman. I'll be attacked when they think they have the upper-hand and the cards stacked in their favor....and they might be right.
I train to fight a morally worse and physically superior streetfighter.
I must negate their ability to harm me and/or those I love or protect at once, decisively. IF they ----for whatever reason----aren't THAT much of a threat, then I won't feel presured to use lots of damage but will tactically thwart them and get out of there. BUT: When the chips ARE down and things look Really bad.....
I've got the more cunning and nasty skills to deal what I must.

Your Brother
John

[Hunter]

I'm not a small guy. I'm a little muscular and can look kinda intimidating to some. (I've been told that I look like "Stone Cold Steve Austin & Goldberg got together and had an Ugly baby) Your Brother
John

HAHAHA Knowing you, and being a major Pro Wrestling nut....I woudl concur with this statement! That gave me a belly laugh.

[Brother John]

HAHAHA Knowing you, and being a major Pro Wrestling nut....I woudl concur with this statement! That gave me a belly laugh.

Yeah....
It was a kid at work what told me that! He was threatening me and trying to put me down
he wasn't trying to make me laugh, but I did laugh, HARD....and that unnerved him worse than just about anything else I could have done.

later...

Your Brother
John

[bujuts]

In my mind this question is irrelevant, if I might say. Ethics and morals have nothing to do with kenpo, they have to do with the person doing the kenpo. This question is akin to questioning the severity of the .45 hollow point - a bit brutal, isn't it? Well, that question has nothing to do with the bullet, or even the gun, but the user of that tool.

Ethic and morals are human things, not kenpo things. Consequently, ethically and morally based decision making should dominate one's choice to use kenpo, and to what extent. Let us not forget that kenpo is a tool, an extension of ourselves. Yes, the martial path has for centuries been a vehicle for time-honored virtues of loyalty, dedication, and sacrifice. But those can be embraced along any path of diligence.

Put simply, be in tune with your morals and ethics up front. Practice kenpo for what it is, and gain the interal and external rewards this wonderful path brings. If we must attack with our weapon, its us as a human attacking, a person hopefully aware of all the moral, ethical spiritual, psychological, and legal trappings of using violenve. Kenpo is just our weapon of choice, so keep that weapon sharp, and do practice the "brutal" things.

Good topic. Look forward to more.


Cheers,

Steven Brown
Universal Kenpo Federation