MT: Is Adrian Roman correct about the evolution of kenpo?

[MT Post Bot]

Is Adrian Roman correct about the evolution of kenpo?
By Sarjahm - Mon, 01 Jan 2007 18:40:42 GMT

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Adrian said that EPAK is like a vintage car....nice to look at and find in it's day, but not very practical in modern times. Speakman seems to have a smilar philosophy with his "Kenpo 5.0". Could it be that Parker kenpo is going the way of the dinosaurs?

http://www.blackbelt4all.com/nativekenpo/index.htm

Grandmaster Ed Parker formulated American Kenpo in the 1970’s and died in 1990. Thus, his final work occurred between 25 and 30 years ago. Had he lived he would have adapted his system and it would be nothing like American Kenpo instructors are teaching today.

Grandmaster Parker joked that when a student black belt came to him and pointed out flaws in his teaching he would make that student his protégé. That no one came forward was a credit to Parker and his loyal following. Students hung on every word and accepted his work with blind faith.

The fact is, Parker taught some techniques which were simply absurd in terms of practical value. Today, there are thousands of Kenpoists learning and teaching material that does not work. If students would use one of Grandmaster Parker’s principles, “cause and effect” they would see these problems. Had Parker continued living he would have seen these flaw for himself and fine-tuned his system.

Parker worked in a time where bigger was better. I believe that having three brown belt levels were put in to keep hungry brown belts in school longer. ‘Extensions’ were added and except for 1st brown these extensions served no good purpose. When I was training in the 1970’s there were 32 techniques per belt level. Green/Orange (1st degree brown) and Short 3 was the 1st degree black belt material.

Parker did not write the extensions after this level and techniques were reworked, adding extensions with no added value. In some cases the technique extensions were absurd violating sound underlying principles. This is the key: If you have to resort to extension to get the job done, then you’d better go back to the base move and work it better – or choose another technique.

When Parker died, he left seven (7) 7th degrees black belt and no protégé to take over his system of American Kenpo. I can only assume that out of respect to him, they have left the system intact and still teach a system that is somewhat outdated.

Out of respect to the Master I have begin to fix much of the material and add a new approach to a wonderful system of self-defense. What I have done is not brain surgery. I have been studying and teaching the system for thirty-three years. It was not a difficult to come up with new arrangement of Kenpo, benefiting from my experience at creating my own Native American system of Tushka-homma.

I plan to produce a DVD series that address the ‘Fatal Flaws of American Kenpo’ Most Kenpo instructors who are worth salt by this time should be teaching a revised version of American Kenpo and they will appreciate new ideas.. If they are not they are behind the time.


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[IWishToLearn]

Alrighty.

[Martin Seck]

I think if you look deep enough into the system you will find answers to the "flaws" you have found within.

On a side note I do like some of what Mr. Speakman has changed but the original system is still appliciable today.

[Billy Lear]

This is a joke, right? Ardian Roman (and what he stands for) is what is wrong with American Kenpo, not what Mr. Parker taught. The major flaws that exist in American Kenpo are the people that invest their time in changing a system that they don't understand vs. investing their time in truly understanding it in the first place.

The thing that really grabs me about this guy, is that he sells black belt certifications for major amounts of money online, without remorse for what it does to the integrity of Kenpo. This man's "work" is an absolute assault to a true kenpoist's senses.

He isn't fixing problems. He is the problem.

[Seabrook]

I plan to produce a DVD series that address the ‘Fatal Flaws of American Kenpo’ Most Kenpo instructors who are worth salt by this time should be teaching a revised version of American Kenpo and they will appreciate new ideas.. If they are not they are behind the time.

Does a black belt certification come with the purchase of this series, LOL?

[jdinca]

Wow. I'm a firm believer in progressing a system and adding improvements where they make sense but this guy should probably take a little time to look a couple of layers deeper into the system. This is all about the cashola.

[Celtic_Crippler]

I hate to admit it, but it does appear to be all about the "cashola."

There may be flaws in the way it's taught, people definately are flawed ( I know I am, and I've never met anyone that was perfect either) but there are no flaws in the principles. So, since Kenpo is based on principles.....

I do feel that by it's very definition Kenpo is supposed to evolve, but as stated....the principles are sound. The techniques may change, but as long as the principles behind them are adhered to....I don't see a problem.

Also, what's this about nobody ever questioning SGM Parker? I remember reading an article about how Chuck Sullivan used to get Ed Parker "worked up" all the time by questioning him on certain things. In the article he stated it was an excellent way to stimulate conversation and pass the time on some of their long car trips together. Man...to have been the proverbial fly on the wall....

[Zarnyk]

Change, evolve, improve, grow.

But most important:

"Don't give up. Don't ever give up." -Jim Valvano

[DavidCC]

Even I can detect a number of problems with this.

My favorite part is this: "It was not a difficult to come up with new arrangement of Kenpo".

No, of coure not.

[Celtic_Crippler]

Change, evolve, improve, grow.

But most important:

"Don't give up. Don't ever give up." -Jim Valvano

"Never give up. Never surrender!" Commander Peter Quincy Taggart

My favorite part is this: "It was not a difficult to come up with new arrangement of Kenpo".

No, of coure not.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm? LMAO

[Rob Broad]

I have not heard anything good about his video series or business ethics yet.

[Celtic_Crippler]

I have not heard anything good about his video series or business ethics yet.

Me neither, but I was thinking....should we really be "blasting" the guy on the forums? I think the popular concensus is obvious, but I wonder if we may be sending the wrong message by allowing flaming to any degree?

[Billy Lear]

Me neither, but I was thinking....should we really be "blasting" the guy on the forums? I think the popular concensus is obvious, but I wonder if we may be sending the wrong message by allowing flaming to any degree?

Black Belt Pledge - I hold that my time and my skill are the assets of my profession, assets which grow in value as I progress in the Art until, as a Third Degree Black Belt, I stand as a fully qualified instructor. It shall be my responsibility to protect any student from ravenous individuals who would try to take advantage of personal weakness to divest the gullible into unprofitable paths, to preserve the sacred things, God, family, country, and Association, I pledge my all.

I think we are obligated to expose this for what it is.

[Dr. Dave in da house]

I think we are obligated to expose this for what it is.

You da man, Billy.

[thedan]

Black Belt Pledge - I hold that my time and my skill are the assets of my profession, assets which grow in value as I progress in the Art until, as a Third Degree Black Belt, I stand as a fully qualified instructor. It shall be my responsibility to protect any student from ravenous individuals who would try to take advantage of personal weakness to divest the gullible into unprofitable paths, to preserve the sacred things, God, family, country, and Association, I pledge my all.

I think we are obligated to expose this for what it is.

There is a big difference in dumping on someone, or ripping them, and in honestly addressing issues of outright fraud. I think you have pretty well summed that up here. Good job, Mr. Lear!

By the way, for those who want the government to step in and regulate the martial arts, "Chief" Roman was once honored by the State of Oklahoma for his martial arts knowlege and skills, and his business practices.

Dan C

[cdhall]

Black Belt Pledge - I hold that my time and my skill are the assets of my profession, assets which grow in value as I progress in the Art until, as a Third Degree Black Belt, I stand as a fully qualified instructor. It shall be my responsibility to protect any student from ravenous individuals who would try to take advantage of personal weakness to divest the gullible into unprofitable paths, to preserve the sacred things, God, family, country, and Association, I pledge my all.

I think we are obligated to expose this for what it is.

Amen Brother, Billy,

Stop by my house if you need 500 more gallons of gasoline to take Berlin.

I posted about the Chief years ago on MT.

[Celtic_Crippler]

Black Belt Pledge - I hold that my time and my skill are the assets of my profession, assets which grow in value as I progress in the Art until, as a Third Degree Black Belt, I stand as a fully qualified instructor. It shall be my responsibility to protect any student from ravenous individuals who would try to take advantage of personal weakness to divest the gullible into unprofitable paths, to preserve the sacred things, God, family, country, and Association, I pledge my all.

I think we are obligated to expose this for what it is.

I am familiar with the pledge as I have taken it, and I agree with it 100%. BUT, I didn't want this to get out of hand and turn nasty. It is quite easy, especially in this case, to make one's point about the negative impact his "product" has on our art without the thread deteriorating into a bash-fest. The thread concerns the comments he made about the evolution of kenpo, not his "products." Let's try and keep it on track.
That being said, you're more than welcome to start a thread concerning your views on the value of his products. There is a section of the forum dedicated to just that. "Product Reviews" I get the feeling it would get a lot of traffic.

[Billy Lear]

I am familiar with the pledge as I have taken it, and I agree with it 100%. BUT, I didn't want this to get out of hand and turn nasty. It is quite easy, especially in this case, to make one's point about the negative impact his "product" has on our art without the thread deteriorating into a bash-fest. The thread concerns the comments he made about the evolution of kenpo, not his "products." Let's try and keep it on track.
That being said, you're more than welcome to start a thread concerning your views on the value of his products. There is a section of the forum dedicated to just that. "Product Reviews" I get the feeling it would get a lot of traffic.

The two are completely intertwined. His "CHANGES" are his product. Which is what makes it relevant in this discussion.

[sifuroy]

I am pretty much with Billy on this one. Answer to Jamies question is you get your certification when you order the Videos. Dosen't say in the ad if you have to watch them .

Most Respectfully,
Sifuroy

[Billy Lear]

It only gets better! This guy is also claiming a 29th Degree. Has Kenpo evolved that much?

Click here to go to his web site and see for yourself:
http://www.tushkahoma.com/