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Thread: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

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    Default MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    Kenpo and UFC style fighting
    By seca2man - Sat, 11 Nov 2006 05:21:36 GMT

    ====================

    Does anyone remember when the UFC first started? I think it was UFC 1 or 2 and I remember a guy named Keith Hackney (sp?) who was fighting this monster sized guy. At the time I think his bio said that he was an American Kenpo Karate practitioner. He won the fight against the giant, but in the next UFC, he went up against a Brazillian named Marco Ruas who basically took him to the ground and tied him up into submission.

    I've watched UFC and Pride fighting off and on, and aside from Mr Hackney, I don't recall ever seeing another Kenpo fighter in the ring. Is Chuck Lidell (sp?) is a kempo practioner? Do you think the rules against eye gouges and direct groin strikes limit what a Kenpo fighter can do in the ring against a skilled MMA?

    Please keep in mind that I'm not trying to start a blog war about whether the new breed of MMA is more effective than Kenpo, nor am I trying to insinuate that cage style fighting and street combat are the same thing. Just curious what the skilled kenpo fighters out there think about their chances in a MMA arena.

    Thanks

    Sean


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    Default Re: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by MT Post Bot View Post
    Kenpo and UFC style fighting
    By seca2man - Sat, 11 Nov 2006 05:21:36 GMT

    ====================

    Does anyone remember when the UFC first started? I think it was UFC 1 or 2 and I remember a guy named Keith Hackney (sp?) who was fighting this monster sized guy. At the time I think his bio said that he was an American Kenpo Karate practitioner. He won the fight against the giant, but in the next UFC, he went up against a Brazillian named Marco Ruas who basically took him to the ground and tied him up into submission.

    I've watched UFC and Pride fighting off and on, and aside from Mr Hackney, I don't recall ever seeing another Kenpo fighter in the ring. Is Chuck Lidell (sp?) is a kempo practioner? Do you think the rules against eye gouges and direct groin strikes limit what a Kenpo fighter can do in the ring against a skilled MMA?

    Please keep in mind that I'm not trying to start a blog war about whether the new breed of MMA is more effective than Kenpo, nor am I trying to insinuate that cage style fighting and street combat are the same thing. Just curious what the skilled kenpo fighters out there think about their chances in a MMA arena.

    Thanks

    Sean
    Sean,

    Yes his name was Keith Hackney but he does not have an American Kenpo background. If memory serves me correctly, I believe it was called White Tiger. His second fight was actually against Royce Gracie, although he did well against Royce in the stand-up game, Royce made Keith tap on the ground.

    There have been other Kenpoists in the UFC. Frank Trejo was in a guy's corner back in the 1990s, and Bob White's student Jeff Newton just fought in it this year (he lost). Chuck Liddell is Kempo, just not American Kenpo.

    About the rules, I think it is a "Kenpo excuse" to say that we would do so much better against some of these guys if we were allowed to do our famous eye gouges and groin strikes. The fact is that those are the rules and a great fighter should be able to adapt.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
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    Default Re: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    Initially, the UFC was truely "Mixed Martial Arts." Over the years and with the adoption of more rules the UFC fighters adapted based on what was working under the new conditions. At first there were only 2 rules: No eye gauging and no fish hooking. The UFC had to adapt more rules in order to get permission to hold their events in most states because the State Boxing Commission had to sanction it in order for it to be legal!

    Now, most UFC fighters basically train a Tai-boxing for their stand up and BJJ for their ground game. If one were going to successfully compete in the UFC I would think they would need to be famiiar with the rules and the methods used in the octagon. You would have to change your training habits.

    If you are a Kenpoist and already compete in sparring competition at tournaments then you already know what I'm talking about. The way you train self defense techniques is different than the way you train for freestyle competition. Reason being in one there are rules to consider and in the other the only rule is self preservation. So, rules do have an affect on one's success in the UFC.

    All that being said, I agree with Jaime in that a great fighter would be able to adapt because a great fighter would train properly for the type of competition they're going to be in. As to why we don't see more Kenpoist.. I don't know.

    We don't see a heck of a lot of TKD or Kung Fu guys in there either. Many of the UFC fighters have various MA backgrounds, but when they train for the octagon they focus on basic Tai-Boxing techniques and basic grappling techniques. They can't afford to waste time training things they can't use because it could cost them a win.

    If'n you-un's is inter-rested....
    Current UFC rules: http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=LearnUFC.Rules
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    Default Re: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    Sean,

    If memory serves me correctly, I believe it was called White Tiger. His second fight was actually against Royce Gracie, although he did well against Royce in the stand-up game, Royce made Keith tap on the ground.
    The system is Saviano's White Tiger Kenpo (same system I'm in) and Gracie was his 3rd fight (2 wins - 2 losses).
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    Default Re: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    check out my youtube page for video of an AK student in an MMA match... search for user name "Kempodavid"

    -D

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    Default Re: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    Here's the link for you folks...
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=tdLsxLboLzg

    I LMAO! That poor grappler didn't know what he had (or didn't have rather) a hold of. ROFL. That guy was moving up the circle, landing blows, I think I saw part of "Charging Ram" one time,.....man...that was...well, refreshing. LOL.

    Brings up a point I've considered before. That grapplers are extremely 2 dimensional fighters. Just look at the mechanics of a shoot.

    Thanks DavidCC, that was cool.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Smile Re: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    Interesting footnote on Keith Hackney....

    He was "discovered" in the lobby of an MMA event....rumour has it, beating the snot outta none other than the the infamous...."Frank Dux"...(Yep, one and the same)....and they offerred him a contract to fight in UFC # 4 based primarily upon that lobby performance.

    Keith Hackney was born in Roselle, Illinois in 1960. He started martial arts at the age 14 by learning wrestling and boxing. Two years later, age 16, he began learning the art of Tae Kwon Do and eventually received second degree black belt. Come 1992, he began training Kenpo Karate. Two years later, he entered the UFC and gained his new nickname, "The Giant Killer", after defeating 618 pound sumo wrestler Yarbarough. He also fought in UFC 4, and was defeated by UFC legend Royce Gracie due to submission by arm bar.
    His full UFC record is as follows:
    4.Loss Marco Ruas Submission (Rear Naked Choke) 1 2:39
    3.Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Armlock) 1 5:32
    2.Win Joe Son Submission (Choke) 1 2:44
    1.Win Emmanuel Yarborough TKO (Strikes)1 1:59
    Keith fractured his hand during his bout with Yarborough and was forced to withdraw from the tournament. Keith is also well known for repeatedly striking Joe Son in the groin during their bout.
    Keith Hackney has also appeared in three movies; Super Fights, Cut Off, and Urban Legend.



    KEith was also undefeated as an amateur boxer with a 12-0 record with 11 knockout wins.
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    Default Re: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    Interesting footnote on Keith Hackney....

    He was "discovered" in the lobby of an MMA event....rumour has it, beating the snot outta none other than the the infamous...."Frank Dux"...(Yep, one and the same)....and they offerred him a contract to fight in UFC # 4 based primarily upon that lobby performance.

    Keith Hackney was born in Roselle, Illinois in 1960. He started martial arts at the age 14 by learning wrestling and boxing. Two years later, age 16, he began learning the art of Tae Kwon Do and eventually received second degree black belt. Come 1992, he began training Kenpo Karate. Two years later, he entered the UFC and gained his new nickname, "The Giant Killer", after defeating 618 pound sumo wrestler Yarbarough. He also fought in UFC 4, and was defeated by UFC legend Royce Gracie due to submission by arm bar.
    His full UFC record is as follows:
    4.Loss Marco Ruas Submission (Rear Naked Choke) 1 2:39
    3.Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Armlock) 1 5:32
    2.Win Joe Son Submission (Choke) 1 2:44
    1.Win Emmanuel Yarborough TKO (Strikes)1 1:59
    Keith fractured his hand during his bout with Yarborough and was forced to withdraw from the tournament. Keith is also well known for repeatedly striking Joe Son in the groin during their bout.
    Keith Hackney has also appeared in three movies; Super Fights, Cut Off, and Urban Legend.



    KEith was also undefeated as an amateur boxer with a 12-0 record with 11 knockout wins.
    He also teamed up with Ken Shamrock to help coach the US Pankration when there was still a chance of it debuting at the Olympics in Greece.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Thumbs up Re: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    HEY!


    I just learned that Diego Sanchez also began his training in Kenpo!
    (Well, technically his first training came almost exclusively from watching Bloodsport and memorizing the techniques, but after that he took-up kenpo!)


    http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/s...chez-interview

    Look for him to put the challenge to GSP in the near future!
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    Default Re: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    If I am right Sanchez must get by Riggs first. He is in the top 3 as well as Matt Serra for winning TUF.

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    Default Re: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    So I know I'm digging back into the past on this post, but I remember someone here asking about the Kempo Tattoo on Chuck Liddell's arm. I watched a special on him last evening and he explained that he trains in Hawaiian Kempo. There is a history of his trainor there. From what I watched he still trains Chuck to this day for all his fights.

    http://www.thepit.tv/

    The tattoo on his arm is the art "Kempo" and his instructors logo.
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    Hello Seca2man,

    You posted, “I think it was UFC 1 or 2 and I remember a guy named Keith Hackney (sp?) who was fighting this monster sized guy.”

    I remember that fight.
    During the first fight he went against a 600 pound former sumo wrestler.
    He beat him about the head and damaged his hand.
    As a result, he won but he had to withdraw from the competition.

    You posted, “At the time I think his bio said that he was an American Kenpo Karate practitioner.”

    I thought he was a Kenpo practitioner too but I thought he called himself a “White Tiger” stylist.

    You asked, “Is Chuck Lidell (sp?) is a kempo practioner?”

    To the best of my knowledge, he is a Kajukembo black belt (under John Hackleman).
    He is also a black belt in Koei-Kan Karate-do and a purple belt in B.J.J.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Liddell

    You asked, “Do you think the rules against eye gouges and direct groin strikes limit what a Kenpo fighter can do in the ring against a skilled MMA?”

    No, the martial sport of mixed martial arts has very specific rules that all practitioners have adhered to.
    This sport is just that, a sport.
    A Kenpo practitioner who avoided eye strikes and groin strikes would do just fine (i.m.o.).
    I don’t believe that Kenpo/Kempo practitioners are at any disadvantage in the octagon.
    We can both hit hard and take a hard shot in return.
    More, we know when and where to strike and we can deliver multiple strikes when necessary.

    That fact of the matter is that the ground game just doesn’t have the same impact it once did.
    (Just look at Matt Hughes of George Saint Pierre, or Matt Serra, for that matter.)

    Regards, MrE2Me2
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    Default Re: MT: Kenpo and UFC style fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    Sean,
    There have been other Kenpoists in the UFC. Frank Trejo was in a guy's corner back in the 1990s,
    That was UFC 1, Zane Frazier was wearing a Parker patch on his shorts. He looked good early, nice speed, footwork, then he gassed and an extremely not fit kickboxer quite literally stomped him into the ground. That started about 2 minutes into the fight.

    And Hackney's fight with Joe Son might have been labeled a win by a choke, if you watch the fight it was probably much more related to Hackney's clever strategy of "get guy on back, punch head with left hand, punch groin with right, repeat about 10 times." Joe Son didn't have much fight left in him after that.

    Lamont
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