Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32

Thread: The Creed, Pledges and Character

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    1,234
    Thanks
    1,485
    Thanked 622 Times in 414 Posts

    Default The Creed, Pledges and Character

    A question to the seniors with a long history of "growing" kenpo students:
    Has it been your experience that the Kenpo Creed and Pledges have actually contributed to the positive development of your students' character?

    I'm wondering what quantifiable benefits of tasking students with learning the pledges actually have been produced. Are they beneficial, are the students held accountable to the tennents contained within or have they proven to be just filler for belt testing ceremonies?

    I have my thoughts but really want to learn what is actually produced. What are your experiences and feelings on this?

    Many thanks for your time and contributions to posterity.
    ~Bill Richardson

    Rudeness is the frustrated attempt of a small mind to communicate.

    Forgive everyone everything

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to toejoe2k For This Useful Post:

    kickboxinglover (11-04-2013)

  3. #2
    tai scorpio is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Yellow Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    55
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 18 Times in 11 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character/2055630433

    try to pull this up or go to photobucket.com

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Worth Texas
    Posts
    3,900
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 1,741 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by toejoe2k View Post
    A question to the seniors with a long history of "growing" kenpo students:
    Has it been your experience that the Kenpo Creed and Pledges have actually contributed to the positive development of your students' character?

    I'm wondering what quantifiable benefits of tasking students with learning the pledges actually have been produced. Are they beneficial, are the students held accountable to the tennents contained within or have they proven to be just filler for belt testing ceremonies?

    I have my thoughts but really want to learn what is actually produced. What are your experiences and feelings on this?

    Many thanks for your time and contributions to posterity.
    Bill,

    I require my students to know all the pledges and the creed.
    However in the end the only person that can be held accountable is the person taking the pledges.

    Many pledges get broke over the years for one reason or another (ie)
    I pledge an unswreving loyalty to my association,instructors, and fellow men. You see the same issue when you lay your old belt to form the shape of the ( L) with your new one.

    It goes like this: The L represent 4 things, 1) Loyalty ( loyalty to whom or what), 2) It represents longevity ( where and in what), 3) it represents Lot's and Lot's to still learn, and 4) it represents a lie. But if the people given the exam's have broken the pledges or no longer teach the system the pledges were developed for, then none of it matters.

    I find value in them, and that's what is important to me.
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

  5. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to MARSHALLS KENPO For This Useful Post:

    dee (06-02-2009),Doc (08-09-2009),scarey (05-18-2009),toejoe2k (05-18-2009)

  6. #4
    Shaolindelt is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    728
    Thanks
    196
    Thanked 396 Times in 246 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by toejoe2k View Post
    A question to the seniors with a long history of "growing" kenpo students:
    Has it been your experience that the Kenpo Creed and Pledges have actually contributed to the positive development of your students' character?

    I'm wondering what quantifiable benefits of tasking students with learning the pledges actually have been produced. Are they beneficial, are the students held accountable to the tennents contained within or have they proven to be just filler for belt testing ceremonies?

    I have my thoughts but really want to learn what is actually produced. What are your experiences and feelings on this?

    Many thanks for your time and contributions to posterity.
    I wouldn't consider myself a kenpo "senior" by any stretch, but just to share my experience as I have students who have become instructors themselves. I have never used the pledges (and indeed, in the majority of my kenpo/kempo training, my background did not have them), but I also find resonance in the pledges. Similar to the way I view rank at different points, I have found that the creed mirrors the expectations I have of my students at or around that level. In that case, I can see beginning to use them perhaps to support what I feel.

    Realistically though, I share with my students throughout their rank, and especially after their test, my expectations for them through the next rank. Would the pledges help? Probably. They are tied to a rich history. Will it prevent any problems in the future? Probably not. It's the individual that must decide, and other than not understanding what is expected, reciting a pledge will not help them make a better decision.

    I definitely think its a fine tradition (their use), and it can be a great compass in setting the expectations with each student. So, if they are something you find value in, then definitely, I say go for them. If I get back to training and teaching underbelts, I think I may try them out for a while so I can see how students respond to them.

  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Shaolindelt For This Useful Post:

    Doc (08-09-2009),MARSHALLS KENPO (05-18-2009),toejoe2k (05-18-2009)

  8. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Worth Texas
    Posts
    3,900
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 1,741 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolindelt View Post
    I wouldn't consider myself a kenpo "senior" by any stretch, but just to share my experience as I have students who have become instructors themselves. I have never used the pledges (and indeed, in the majority of my kenpo/kempo training, my background did not have them), but I also find resonance in the pledges. Similar to the way I view rank at different points, I have found that the creed mirrors the expectations I have of my students at or around that level. In that case, I can see beginning to use them perhaps to support what I feel.

    Realistically though, I share with my students throughout their rank, and especially after their test, my expectations for them through the next rank. Would the pledges help? Probably. They are tied to a rich history. Will it prevent any problems in the future? Probably not. It's the individual that must decide, and other than not understanding what is expected, reciting a pledge will not help them make a better decision.

    I definitely think its a fine tradition (their use), and it can be a great compass in setting the expectations with each student. So, if they are something you find value in, then definitely, I say go for them. If I get back to training and teaching underbelts, I think I may try them out for a while so I can see how students respond to them.

    I don't consdier myself a senior either, just been doing it a little while
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to MARSHALLS KENPO For This Useful Post:

    J Ellis (05-18-2009)

  10. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    1,234
    Thanks
    1,485
    Thanked 622 Times in 414 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    I don't consdier myself a senior either, just been doing it a little while
    But, I value your opinion, sir.
    ~Bill Richardson

    Rudeness is the frustrated attempt of a small mind to communicate.

    Forgive everyone everything

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to toejoe2k For This Useful Post:

    MARSHALLS KENPO (05-19-2009)

  12. #7
    Shaolindelt is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    728
    Thanks
    196
    Thanked 396 Times in 246 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    I don't consdier myself a senior either, just been doing it a little while
    I love walking in to a new school and someone asks if I've trained before. I always reply "a little."

    And I think I might consider myself a senior in another 40 years or so . . . older than 70 would be a senior I think . . . Eh . . . maybe 50 years . . .

  13. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Worth Texas
    Posts
    3,900
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 1,741 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolindelt View Post
    I love walking in to a new school and someone asks if I've trained before. I always reply "a little."

    And I think I might consider myself a senior in another 40 years or so . . . older than 70 would be a senior I think . . . Eh . . . maybe 50 years . . .
    50 is sneeking up on me real quick, so I will be lucky to be around another 40 years, and I don't think I will be able to do much Kenpo at that time if I am still around.

    20 more years in the art will be pushing it for me. But it's all good
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

  14. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,342
    Thanks
    2,295
    Thanked 4,372 Times in 1,426 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    50 is sneeking up on me real quick, so I will be lucky to be around another 40 years, and I don't think I will be able to do much Kenpo at that time if I am still around.

    20 more years in the art will be pushing it for me. But it's all good
    You'll be fine. Anyways, you got a little cutie you need to stick around for. And, eventually, you will be a senior, just by outliving the guys who are older than us. Just by sticking around for your kid, you'll end up being one of the longest practitioners on the globe. Hence, a senior. So, we sort of have an obligation to get it right, ne pas?

    As for the OP...I'm a hopeful cynic. The pledges are merely words. People will basically be who they are, regardless of what we try to do to enculturate them differently. I try to bring the best out of my students, but I also try to bring out the worst...there is a point at which we are all jst another jerk on the bus. All the stuff about loyalty and character...if you knew how so many of the seniors lived their commitments to loyalty, you'd shudder in disgust.

    I take a different approach. Rather than trying to fake sincerity by pressing an external value system from the outside, in, I live in a belief that the life force puppeteering the human being is a noble force at it's deepest core. And that the thoughtful life of trying to peel away the layers of stuff that seperate us from the knowledge in that core is a life well-lived.

    Yogananda had a cute little logic string I liked...If God is everywhere, then God is in me. If God, in his nature, is divine, and God is in me, than I, in my nature, am also divine.

    Advaita. The Source infuses all things, maintaining them. Therefore, all things are, at their core, sacred, and part of God. Hence, we have a duty to honor the sacred in all things; ourselves, others, trees, animals, rocks. The seperateness between us and them...between "in here" and "out there" is illusory, based on limitations of perspective. As part of that ALL, we share the divinity of that Source. We tend to forget that, which is where our bad behavior comes from. Remembering our relationship to Source, and the paths it would seem to oblige us to walk should we choose conscientious living, provides us an opportunity to do better at being better. From the inside, out....blooming from a growing awareness that starts on the inside, out. Pledges, IMO, seek to regulate behavior from the outside, in, and are inherently designed to fail, no matter how noble the intent. Design flaw.

    Change takes place in the context of a relationship. There's nothing to relate to in a pledge, except words which one may or may not identify with. So why not start there, and encourage students to write their own pledges...not with words, but in a life that grows outward from an understanding?

    A friend of mine used to say, "Show me your commitments. Live your life in such a way that people will "get" what your commitments are, just by looking at you". Still working on that one, but I like it.

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  15. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Dr. Dave in da house For This Useful Post:

    Doc (08-09-2009),MARSHALLS KENPO (05-19-2009),Shaolindelt (05-19-2009),toejoe2k (05-19-2009)

  16. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Worth Texas
    Posts
    3,900
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 1,741 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    You'll be fine. Anyways, you got a little cutie you need to stick around for. And, eventually, you will be a senior, just by outliving the guys who are older than us. Just by sticking around for your kid, you'll end up being one of the longest practitioners on the globe. Hence, a senior. So, we sort of have an obligation to get it right, ne pas?

    As for the OP...I'm a hopeful cynic. The pledges are merely words. People will basically be who they are, regardless of what we try to do to enculturate them differently. I try to bring the best out of my students, but I also try to bring out the worst...there is a point at which we are all jst another jerk on the bus. All the stuff about loyalty and character...if you knew how so many of the seniors lived their commitments to loyalty, you'd shudder in disgust.

    I take a different approach. Rather than trying to fake sincerity by pressing an external value system from the outside, in, I live in a belief that the life force puppeteering the human being is a noble force at it's deepest core. And that the thoughtful life of trying to peel away the layers of stuff that seperate us from the knowledge in that core is a life well-lived.

    Yogananda had a cute little logic string I liked...If God is everywhere, then God is in me. If God, in his nature, is divine, and God is in me, than I, in my nature, am also divine.

    Advaita. The Source infuses all things, maintaining them. Therefore, all things are, at their core, sacred, and part of God. Hence, we have a duty to honor the sacred in all things; ourselves, others, trees, animals, rocks. The seperateness between us and them...between "in here" and "out there" is illusory, based on limitations of perspective. As part of that ALL, we share the divinity of that Source. We tend to forget that, which is where our bad behavior comes from. Remembering our relationship to Source, and the paths it would seem to oblige us to walk should we choose conscientious living, provides us an opportunity to do better at being better. From the inside, out....blooming from a growing awareness that starts on the inside, out. Pledges, IMO, seek to regulate behavior from the outside, in, and are inherently designed to fail, no matter how noble the intent. Design flaw.

    Change takes place in the context of a relationship. There's nothing to relate to in a pledge, except words which one may or may not identify with. So why not start there, and encourage students to write their own pledges...not with words, but in a life that grows outward from an understanding?

    A friend of mine used to say, "Show me your commitments. Live your life in such a way that people will "get" what your commitments are, just by looking at you". Still working on that one, but I like it.

    D.
    Forte Bine Domule, tu est bine cuventare pentrumine
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

  17. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,342
    Thanks
    2,295
    Thanked 4,372 Times in 1,426 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Forte Bine Domule, tu est bine cuventare pentrumine
    Admittedly, it has been waaaayyyy to long since I took Latin.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  18. #12
    Carol's Avatar
    Carol is offline Deo duce, ferro comitante
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nashua, NH
    Posts
    2,007
    Thanks
    1,141
    Thanked 976 Times in 569 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    I think he said you have strong curves and he likes your pentagram.

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Carol For This Useful Post:

    Dr. Dave in da house (05-19-2009),MARSHALLS KENPO (05-19-2009)

  20. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Worth Texas
    Posts
    3,900
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 1,741 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    I think he said you have strong curves and he likes your pentagram.

    No Sis, that is not what I said.
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to MARSHALLS KENPO For This Useful Post:

    Carol (05-19-2009)

  22. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Worth Texas
    Posts
    3,900
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 1,741 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    Admittedly, it has been waaaayyyy to long since I took Latin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    I think he said you have strong curves and he likes your pentagram.
    It's Romanian,

    What I said was: very good Sir, you are a blessing to me.

    ps. Latin is just the root
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

  23. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MARSHALLS KENPO For This Useful Post:

    Carol (05-19-2009),Dr. Dave in da house (05-19-2009),Shaolindelt (05-19-2009)

  24. #15
    gixxershane's Avatar
    gixxershane is offline
    KenpoTalk
    2nd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Providence Plantation
    Posts
    777
    Thanks
    261
    Thanked 180 Times in 147 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    It's Romanian,

    What I said was: very good Sir, you are a blessing to me.

    ps. Latin is just the root

    To most langages in one way or another! . I only took it for one year, that was all I could stand!
    "The sacraed rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself, and can never be erased.""

    Alexander Hamilton
    The Farmer Refuted (1775)

  25. #16
    Shaolindelt is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    728
    Thanks
    196
    Thanked 396 Times in 246 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    It's Romanian,

    What I said was: very good Sir, you are a blessing to me.

    ps. Latin is just the root
    Thanks Mr. Marshall! I was trying to figure that one out and it does not translate from Latin very well!!! Too many languages, too little time.

    -- One day hopes to be a polyglot . . . (and no, it doesn't mean that! Mr. Flashing Crane!!!)

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Shaolindelt For This Useful Post:

    Carol (05-19-2009)

  27. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Worth Texas
    Posts
    3,900
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 1,741 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolindelt View Post
    Thanks Mr. Marshall! I was trying to figure that one out and it does not translate from Latin very well!!! Too many languages, too little time.

    -- One day hopes to be a polyglot . . . (and no, it doesn't mean that! Mr. Flashing Crane!!!)

    I find it comes in handy when I watch the olympic gymnastic competitions
    .
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

  28. #18
    Shaolindelt is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    728
    Thanks
    196
    Thanked 396 Times in 246 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    I find it comes in handy when I watch the olympic gymnastic competitions
    .
    I can recognize a few words in Russian . . . mostly those you do not wish to be called. I learned that after officiating ice hockey with an all Soviet team . . . onyl two of the guys spoke fluent English and they helped me figure out when I was being called something that is not polite to call a sports official.

  29. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Worth Texas
    Posts
    3,900
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 1,741 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolindelt View Post
    I can recognize a few words in Russian . . . mostly those you do not wish to be called. I learned that after officiating ice hockey with an all Soviet team . . . onyl two of the guys spoke fluent English and they helped me figure out when I was being called something that is not polite to call a sports official.

    I hope to get to train with you some day
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

  30. The Following User Says Thank You to MARSHALLS KENPO For This Useful Post:

    Shaolindelt (05-20-2009)

  31. #20
    Shaolindelt is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    728
    Thanks
    196
    Thanked 396 Times in 246 Posts

    Default Re: The Creed, Pledges and Character

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    I hope to get to train with you some day
    The feeling is mutual! I do need to get back up in the NorthEast one of these years!!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. EPAKS Yellow Belt Manual - Complete
    By Bob Hubbard in forum Ed Parker Sr. Memories from Ed Parker Jr.
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-17-2007, 01:18 PM

Search tags for this page (caching method: table, memcache)

date kenpo creed
,

karate creed printable version

,
kenpo karate pledges
,
words that build charcter in a creed
Click on a term to search our site for related topics.