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Thread: Kenpo sticks

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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastkenpoist View Post
    In all of our weapons training we start with weapons tailored for ourselves. That way when we pick up any other weapon, we have a point of reference and can immediately know the benefits and limitations of what we are wielding.
    You mentioned this upthread and I was just reading back through and wanted to respond. I think I understand generally what you mean, but I don't think you can possibly "immediately" understand the use of any tool. I mean, you can start with an idea like "stick him with the pointy end" and that might be pretty obvious when you pick something up. But learning how to actually use a weapon requires an extensive amount of training. It's not just, oh, I started with a 16 inch club so I can use any weapon with equal skill and ability. There are overlapping approaches, and some are more overlapping than others. Stick and club are pretty similar, tonfa a little less so. Short staff and long staff and spear are all pretty close, but all have very different specific utility. Knives and machetes are similar, but you use them differently. Short guns and long guns. Rope and chain. Axe and cane. Yes, my training informs my approach, and the more training I have the more informed I'll be, but you always start out as a beginner. Maybe a capable beginner, but a beginner none the less.

    Maybe I'm attributing a context to this statement that you didn't intend. But I see a lot of guys say "kenpo makes me good at everything." It may point you in the right direction, but you still gotta do all the work.


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    "All the time you're arguing over, is this kenpo, is that kenpo, you could be training!"

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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesemindz View Post
    You mentioned this upthread and I was just reading back through and wanted to respond. I think I understand generally what you mean, but I don't think you can possibly "immediately" understand the use of any tool. I mean, you can start with an idea like "stick him with the pointy end" and that might be pretty obvious when you pick something up. But learning how to actually use a weapon requires an extensive amount of training. It's not just, oh, I started with a 16 inch club so I can use any weapon with equal skill and ability. There are overlapping approaches, and some are more overlapping than others. Stick and club are pretty similar, tonfa a little less so. Short staff and long staff and spear are all pretty close, but all have very different specific utility. Knives and machetes are similar, but you use them differently. Short guns and long guns. Rope and chain. Axe and cane. Yes, my training informs my approach, and the more training I have the more informed I'll be, but you always start out as a beginner. Maybe a capable beginner, but a beginner none the less.

    Maybe I'm attributing a context to this statement that you didn't intend. But I see a lot of guys say "kenpo makes me good at everything." It may point you in the right direction, but you still gotta do all the work.


    -Rob
    The point I was trying to get across, and obviously failed in doing so, was that when I pick up a stick / club other than my tailored club I can immediately tell that it is longer / shorter than mine, more or less dense than mine, etc.

    I agree, you need to train with it, not just cut down a branch and you are a master of the club.
    A good teacher is a master of simplification and an enemy of simplism. ~ Louis A. Berman

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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Mr. Speakman's own words on the subject.
    http://www.taekwondotimes.com/magazi...p?bns_seq_i=24
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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastkenpoist View Post
    The point I was trying to get across, and obviously failed in doing so, was that when I pick up a stick / club other than my tailored club I can immediately tell that it is longer / shorter than mine, more or less dense than mine, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastkenpoist View Post
    I agree, you need to train with it, not just cut down a branch and you are a master of the club.
    Ah. I get it now. I did misunderstand you. That makes much more sense.


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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Quote Originally Posted by HKphooey View Post
    Mr. Speakman's own words on the subject.
    http://www.taekwondotimes.com/magazi...p?bns_seq_i=24
    And just to note, he is dead wrong about the FMA lacking an "elaborate system of checking."
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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    And just to note, he is dead wrong about the FMA lacking an "elaborate system of checking."
    I know you're being "protective," but he's not "dead wrong," he's just mistaken while at the same time admitting, "I'm no expert."
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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesemindz View Post
    You mentioned this upthread and I was just reading back through and wanted to respond. I think I understand generally what you mean, but I don't think you can possibly "immediately" understand the use of any tool. I mean, you can start with an idea like "stick him with the pointy end" and that might be pretty obvious when you pick something up. But learning how to actually use a weapon requires an extensive amount of training. It's not just, oh, I started with a 16 inch club so I can use any weapon with equal skill and ability. There are overlapping approaches, and some are more overlapping than others. Stick and club are pretty similar, tonfa a little less so. Short staff and long staff and spear are all pretty close, but all have very different specific utility. Knives and machetes are similar, but you use them differently. Short guns and long guns. Rope and chain. Axe and cane. Yes, my training informs my approach, and the more training I have the more informed I'll be, but you always start out as a beginner. Maybe a capable beginner, but a beginner none the less.

    Maybe I'm attributing a context to this statement that you didn't intend. But I see a lot of guys say "kenpo makes me good at everything." It may point you in the right direction, but you still gotta do all the work.


    -Rob
    I see the point you're trying to make, but this isn't the best example to use. Short staff, long staff, and spear are not "pretty close" to each other except in the fact that they're all usually made of wood. Of course, it's possible we're talking about different staves and spears.
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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    I see the point you're trying to make, but this isn't the best example to use. Short staff, long staff, and spear are not "pretty close" to each other except in the fact that they're all usually made of wood. Of course, it's possible we're talking about different staves and spears.
    We probably are and I think you're proving my point.


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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Okay, to me, a short staff is a jo, a shorter staff is a hanbo, a long staff is a bo, and a spear is a Qiang. Superficially, all can be used in a few common ways, but they're all very different if you understand them. What do you mean by they're all pretty close?
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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    Okay, to me, a short staff is a jo, a shorter staff is a hanbo, a long staff is a bo, and a spear is a Qiang. Superficially, all can be used in a few common ways, but they're all very different if you understand them. What do you mean by they're all pretty close?
    Superficially, all can be used in a few common ways, but they're all very different if you understand them.

    This is exactly the point I was trying to make.


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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesemindz View Post
    Superficially, all can be used in a few common ways
    Doesn't make them close.
    "To be, rather than to seem"

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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    Doesn't make them close.
    Jesus christ dude. Are you just looking to be pissed? It's a matter of semantics. I'm sorry I used the word close and you used the word common. My bad. We made the same point, which was that they aren't the same thing anyway despite their superficial similarities. Or is that the wrong word too? Get on with it.


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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Nope, we're not making the same point at all. My point is that they're not very similar at all.
    "To be, rather than to seem"

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Slightly different view on "kenpo sticks"-

    This is the stick my wife burned for Mr. Wedlake:
    Tiger_Dragon.jpgTiger_Dragon4.jpgTiger_Dragon5.jpg


    On the seminar Mr. Phil Buck from England asked for a pair of sticks which my wife just finished.
    The eagle on top is the symbol of Mr. Buck's eskrima style, the trees at the bottom form his name.

    philssticks.jpg
    Berserker101 likes this.
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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Great looking set of sticks
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    Default Re: Kenpo sticks

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesemindz View Post
    You mentioned this upthread and I was just reading back through and wanted to respond. I think I understand generally what you mean, but I don't think you can possibly "immediately" understand the use of any tool. I mean, you can start with an idea like "stick him with the pointy end" and that might be pretty obvious when you pick something up. But learning how to actually use a weapon requires an extensive amount of training. It's not just, oh, I started with a 16 inch club so I can use any weapon with equal skill and ability. There are overlapping approaches, and some are more overlapping than others. Stick and club are pretty similar, tonfa a little less so. Short staff and long staff and spear are all pretty close, but all have very different specific utility. Knives and machetes are similar, but you use them differently. Short guns and long guns. Rope and chain. Axe and cane. Yes, my training informs my approach, and the more training I have the more informed I'll be, but you always start out as a beginner. Maybe a capable beginner, but a beginner none the less.

    Maybe I'm attributing a context to this statement that you didn't intend. But I see a lot of guys say "kenpo makes me good at everything." It may point you in the right direction, but you still gotta do all the work.


    -Rob
    I don't think the idea was ever that a kenpo would prepare you to be an expert in using this weapon or that weapon, but that if you needed to elevate the level of violence in response to a threat, your training in kenpo would allow you to adapt objects from the environment in useful ways.

    IMHO 99% of the time this is going to be equivalent to a short club, to brass knuckles, or a small blade. Because: these 3 weapon types are most similar to open handed striking and so you will recognize them in your environment ("I can stab him with this screwdriver" "If I hold this brake caliper in my hand when I hit him I bet that will hurt a lot more"), and the types of objects you might find around you are typcially not going to resemble spears, tonfa, or nunchaku LOL unless you live on a farm in Okinawa, 100 years ago...
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