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Thread: SL - 4 Delayed Sword question

  1. #101
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    Default Re: SL - 4 Delayed Sword question

    Quote Originally Posted by kenpostudent4life View Post
    Correction, I been practicing with Jiu Jitsu folks for how they would attack to address the weakness how the attack is executed in "Charging Ram" (at least as it was done two decades ago).

    The question of what additional "training should one pursue" maybe be a bit "BODE'ISH"
    I don't know that this can be answered without knowing how you learned the attack from Charging Ram two decades ago.

    The Ram techniques are some of the most notorious in the system for people changing what it is, what it was, and why. It's a weird family of techniques. So many go about changing them, or omitting them, from the curriculum.

    I would just say this, practicing with JiuJitsu folks is a great way to learn JiuJitsu. I'm not certain it is a good way to learn Ed Parker's Kenpo.

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  3. #102
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    Default Re: SL - 4 Delayed Sword question

    Quote Originally Posted by kenpostudent4life View Post
    Correction, I been practicing with Jiu Jitsu folks for how they would attack to address the weakness how the attack is executed in "Charging Ram" (at least as it was done two decades ago).

    The question of what additional "training should one pursue" maybe be a bit "BODE'ISH"
    While I applaud your efforts, and it is better than not doing anything at all, this will probably not give you the answers you seek today. Todays martial arts are extremely style conscious and adhere rigorously to the philosophy that defines their style from others. Today, being able to separate one style from another is important in a competitive marketing environment. "Why should I train with you instead of the PDQ guy near my house?" Most must position themselves as "different" from the next guy, and that is where the philosophy centric style preferences separate us. Unfortunately, this is to most styles detriment.

    Modern competition judo based jiujitsu did a great job marketing itself as "different" and used contests to "prove they're better than other styles. What was missing was how the rules, once again, dictate what a competitor has to do to be successful, and the judo/jiujitsu people instituted rules that favored their own root style. Not to take away the fact that they were also fierce competitors, but if you are really good at something, and your opponent is forced to compete by your rules, it is expected that you should prevail.

    When I grew up in the arts, everyone cross trained with anyone and everyone you could find. There were so few of us you not only welcomed each other, but freely shared information about what you had learned with each other. Then, there was no competition just people who loved the art and loved hanging with others who felt the same. This included the top guys in their respected styles, the true "masters" of the day. they all opened their doors once a week and let anyone come in and train. There was no fear of street idiots, or lawsuits. Everyone was just having fun.

    Tournament competition not only ushered in a level of commerciality in the mid-sixties, it brought the same level of competitiveness to the new formed business environment. It also created a new style; "tournament karate." Much like today's new style MMA, competition has bred its own unique style, not only for the sake of competition, but to prove this new "style" is superior to older more traditional methods.

    Tournament Karate of the 60's was equally as unique because, while there were many different styles competing, the rules and nuances of competition dictated what a competitor must do to win and therefore the idea of competition created its own style unto itself. This was unique for the general public who did not recognize this fact. Thus, to the uninitiated, the style that won was perceived to be a better style than those that lost, when in reality winners were just better competitors who came from schools who focused on "tournament competition" over and above their own school style. In many instances, while instructors and students continued to wear patches and identified with a particular style, the reality suggests they no longer genuinely represented that style in favor of honing their "competition style karate" for the sake of winning.

    This is why understanding martial identity is so important when looking for answers. If you take a self defense question to various styles, they all will give answers consistent with their philosophical identity. Chances are, most Korean Stylist will want to kick, modern judo/jiujitsu will want to grapple and take you to the ground in some way, Traditional Karate will use powerful punches and kicks, and Aikido will try to redirect your energy, etc. While none of these ideas are bad unto themselves, a focus on philosophical ideas causes some style centric teachers to miss relevant solutions in a self defense environment. Adhering to ones philosophy is great until your well-being is on the line, and when someone grabs you, maybe a well placed poke to the eyes is your best option, even though its not found in your styles playbook.

    I have a friend and associate who is old school jiujitsu, a traditionalist if you will. We would go around all the time about this very issue. Me being the Chinese Self Defense Pragmatist, and he the Japanese Jiujitsu traditionalist adhering to his "philosophical teachings." I would hit he would grab, even when for me grabbing didn't make sense. But my own philosophy is old school and honed from my time in traditional Chinese and Japanese arts, refined by Ed Parker Sr. who was a pragmatist, and finally solidified by the reality of many years as a uniformed street cop and federal agent.

    So, while training with judo/jiujitsu people to find answers to some of your questions in Ed Parker Kenpo Karate is not a bad idea in itself, one must be aware of the informations perspective, and be prepared to always put that information in context. But learning new things is never a bad idea, you just have to know where to put it in your library.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron ChapÚl

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